Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW

 

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:54 pm
Subject: Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW

Back in November, we had three threads on Islam, beginning with the following posts:

occult lodges and islam
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/3

Islam, Christianity, and justice....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/225

hello - Islam
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/297

These threads have been html-formattted and compiled here for easy reading:

http://www.uncletaz.com/at/novdec03/occlodg.html

http://www.uncletaz.com/at/novdec03/islmchrjust.html

http://www.uncletaz.com/at/novdec03/helloislam.html

On March 4, I attended a lecture about Anthroposophy and Islam held by Peter Normann Waage. He was preparing for this lecture when I sent him some bits and pieces from the above-mentioned threads, and this seemed to get him going. I was not aware that Peter NW is quite an expert on Islam and has taken an active interest in Islamic studies since his college days. He did aquire the cycle to the priests that I quoted from and mentioned it during the lecture, but this Sorat-666-angle came on short notice - it was released to the public only a very few years ago - so in my view, he had not taken this sufficiently into account.

I say this with a great deal of caution, because Peter NW knows so much more about Islam than I do, and a major difference between people like myself and people like Diana, Peter S, and "Lightsearcher1" (El Eswahn) is that people like me are always willing to adjust our opinions in the light of new information. I have adopted a "hard line" on Islam because it is backed up by some hard facts, including spiritual-scientific facts. But I have always been aware that these facts represent only a partial picture of something as complicated as the role of Islam in human history and evolution.

Goethe is very popular among Muslims. Peter NW draws an interesting parallel between Martin Luther and Mohammed. He has promised to send me the manuscript of the lecture (I didn't take notes), and it looks like I'll have to remind him. (We had lunch and talked about other things, and then he went to Switzerland to do something at the Goetheanum.)

We talked earlier here about something Bradford also has pointed to - namely that the old monotheistic religions embrace the Father God only and do not comprehend the Son God, the "I AM," the autonomous, self-dependent human being we find in the PoF. Peter NW, however, mentions Muslim philosophers whose thinking goes very parallel with the PoF. One of these was an older Iranian man who concluded that every person who understood Islam could interpret the Koran and even re-write it. He was executed for blasphemy by the Ayatollah.

El Eswahn (Lightsearcher1) seems to think that the only Islam that has validity exists among executioners, murderers, and terrorists. Those who recognize that the real Islam exists among philosophers of freedom, among the executed rather than the executioners, are suffering from the disease of liberalism and a pathological lack of bloodthirst or something.

Anyway, there is one riddle that was solved for me when I listened to Peter's lecture. In Christianity, the Word, the Logos, becomes flesh through the incarnation in Christ-Jesus. For Muslims, it is impossible for Allah to have a son, because the Word, the Logos, is the Koran. In other words, in Islam, the Logos becomes Scripture, and in Christianity, the Logos becomes flesh, it becomes completely human.

Something to think about. I'll get back to this topic later when I've received Peter's manusctipt and resumed those apocalyptic studies as well. In the meantime, some comments and feedbacks may be of interest.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:36 pm
Subject: Sketches about Islam Was:R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW

Hi Tarjei.

The "Islam issue" as you was able to show it's much more complicated than the grandguignol hatred of "Darkfinder" could imagine . I'll put here some short sketches, based on Steiner's insights and on some historical facts.

In the beginning (VII Cent) Islam took place like a "2 horns Beast" impulse offspring. After a while such an impulse was "milded" by the whole development of Islamic culture between VII and XIV cent due to a kind of "Lucifer's help" that helped Islamic culture to develop in the ways able to build some links, both occult and exoteric (Bacon's issue) with the historical necessity of Ahrimanic Western Materialism during the following centuries (Steiner's Leading Thoughts). In the meantime a further eastern impulse was rising: the Central Asian Mongolix one (Mars Demons) that, on a purely historical level, can be seen, in the Turkish Empire building and development. (Much of European ipublic image about Arabism is based on the "fear of the Turkish").

As a new counterbalance, from the deepest Eastern Wisdom, another poistive impulse was born in the meantime : namely the Sufi tradition able to mix itself up with the Islamic orthodoxy. (Omar Inahayatt Khan is the last of those occultist).

The actually tragic event in Islamic history was, on the contary, during XIX Century and onwards, the meeting with Western nationalism and "democratic issue" till today. This cultural soup of different cultural and occult impulses is at the core of the harsh troubles of today that, as a kernel, got more and more the tricks and hames of Western Lodges that, as usual, play their games of "Sourcerie's Apprenticers".

 

Andrea

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From: holderlin66
Date: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:25 am
Subject: Re: Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW

Tarjei Straume wrote:

Goethe is very popular among Muslims. Peter NW draws an interesting parallel between Martin Luther and Mohammed.

GOETHE

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/jul2000/khat-j21.shtml

"Accompanied by German President Johannes Rau, a member of the ruling Social Democratic Party (SPD), Khatami unveiled a memorial dedicated to two of the greatest German and Persian poets, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Hafiz, the poetic name of Shams ud-Din Mohammed (c.1325-89).

Following the unveiling ceremony, Khatami was scheduled to speak before assembled dignitaries for 20 minutes. He spoke longer, dwelling on the close historic links between Iran and Germany. He referred to Goethe's affinity for the work of the fourteenth century Persian poet Hafiz, and also to the Islamic poet and political leader Muhammad Allama Iqbal (1877-1938).

Khatami's references to the relationship between Goethe and Hafiz are historically accurate. Goethe first came across translations of the Persian poet in 1814. He was immediately taken with the vital, life- embracing texts of the Persian that employed a rich range of metaphors to deal with the human condition. He declared himself to be Hafiz' twin and his aim to be the celebration of love and wine in the manner of his co-thinker. By the middle of the same year Goethe had written 30 verses dedicated to the earlier poet.

Goethe has often been described as the quintessential German poet, but what characterised his work above all was its universalism. His interest and study of literature embraced all of European literature, including classical Greek and Roman, as well as the outstanding prose and poetry of Arabia and the Middle East, China and India. In 1827 he wrote: "National literature no longer means very much, the age of world literature is due."

When Hafiz wrote his poems in the fourteenth century, he was by no means appealing to a "national" audience. His potential audience in the Islamic and Oriental world, with its heart in Persia, extended throughout the Arab countries, North Africa, Sicily and Spain. Goethe wrote one stanza linking Hafiz to Spain's most celebrated poet, Calderon de la Barca:

"Magnificent Orient

spread across the Mediterranean

Only he who knows and loves Hafiz

can understand the songs of Calderon."

Bradford comments;

Goethe in a generous cosmopolitan and Consciousness Soul manner, elaborated out of Weimar the sense of the Universal Human Being. This would indeed be the model of the Consciousness Soul out of Germany and Steiner understood that even Napoleon desired to meet Goethe. So that we understand that Steiner focused on the Universal Human Being that was a Platonic King, a human being who was felt to be a global being existed in Goethe. This model became for us as well the Goetheanum.

The Goetheanum had stood in the midst of the fall of Europe and held Goethe up as a starting point for Europe to take up the Consciousness Soul. In this Consciousness Soul Steiner could pollinate the Michael Insights needed to lead mankind to a foundational understanding of brotherhood.

Bradford

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From: danifyou
Date: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:20 am
Subject: Rép. : Re: Anthroposophy and Islam, and Peter NW

Would the World be more Ideally constituted
On the Social and the Culture of MAN; Jeez..
We'd have what you've given below on the News - Brad!
(Yes - it could then be rightly for sure Capitalized! :)

Thanks to you to fill the gap
And for the Commemorative
Goethean comment!

Let Goethe be our Poetic Diplomat!

Thanks for the Hi(n)t Taz!

Dan

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