Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never
Ends)
From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:34 am
Subject: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
This is from the last Bin Laden tape, apparently
authentic:
"Reciprocal treatment
is fair and the one who starts injustice bears greater blame."
See the whole text here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3628069.stm
The one who starts injustice. Reminds me of siblings pointing
the finger at each other when trying to explain who started a
fight.
Rasputin, the "evil monk", adviser
to the Romanovs, was asked if warfare would ever end, and answered
impatiently that wars will end when little boys stop fist fighting.
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:24 am
Subject: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
zapdingo wrote:
This is from the last Bin Laden tape, apparently
authentic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3628069.stm
The one who starts injustice. Reminds me
of siblings pointing the finger at each other when trying to
explain who started a fight.
Rasputin, the "evil monk", adviser
to the Romanovs, was asked if warfare would ever end, and answered
impatiently that wars will end when little boys stop fist fighting.
Bryan
Some aspects of how the collision and train
wreck of Judaism, Islam and Fundamental Christianity are being
brought to head can be understood from the tape. It is odd how
news rarely runs the full text, especially when it is not some
black operations planted tape. Steiner's study in hatred, from
the other thread is a stunning perspective, but as in reading
the text of Bin Laden, we never wish to savor and understand
but rather blur over if true Justice happens to come from our
current Neon Terror Poster Boy or True Justice is outlined in
the richness of Dr. Steiner.
thanks for this:
From Bin Laden:
"Which religion considers
your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And
which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood
water? Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice
bears greater blame."
"In my hands there
is a message to remind you that justice is a duty towards those
whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights
will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them.
The greatest rule of safety
is justice, and stopping injustice and aggression. It was said:
Oppression kills the oppressors and the hotbed of injustice is
evil. The situation in occupied Palestine is an example. What
happened on 11 September [2001] and 11 March [the Madrid train
bombings] is your commodity that was returned to you.
It is known that security
is a pressing necessity for all mankind. We do not agree that
you should monopolise it only for yourselves. Also, vigilant
people do not allow their politicians to tamper with their security.
Having said this, we would
like to inform you that labelling us and our acts as terrorism
is also a description of you and of your acts. Reaction comes
at the same level as the original action. Our acts are reaction
to your own acts, which are represented by the destruction and
killing of our kinfolk in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine.
The act that horrified the
world; that is, the killing of the old, handicapped [Hamas spiritual
leader] Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, may God have mercy on him, is sufficient
evidence.
We pledge to God that we will
punish America for him, God willing.
Which religion considers your
killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which
principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water?
Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice
bears greater blame."
...................................................................................................................................
From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:29 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
Bradford wrote:
It is odd how news rarely runs the full
text, especially when it is not some black operations planted
tape.
Yes, indeed. And you get amazing surprises going to the sources,
which is recommended when one wants to form one's opinion free
from media bias and other people's agendas.
It can also be fun. I remember, for instance,
reading the Starr report at the time of its release. The full
text was - and still is - available in the net(for example: http://www.cnn.com/starr.report/)
There was so much talk about the cigar episode
but for me the funniest was the description of a sexual encounter
with Ms. Lewinsky which ends with the president er, "releasing"
himself in the sink at the Oval office's bathroom. Tsk, tsk.
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:51 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
zap wrote:
with Ms. Lewinsky which ends with the president
er, "releasing" himself in the sink at the Oval office's
bathroom. Tsk, tsk.
Bryan
You're right, it is a damn sense of humor
about it all. However Bryan, with humor without, what is your
take on this gathering Storm and the beauty of the PLANS is that
Base upon base will be needed because it wasn't poor planning
at all, it was brilliant planning to require the drug of American
Might and Israel to corral the Oil and the Muslims.. Because
we offered them Democracy and they didn't take it... whine, whine,
mumble...???? wink, wink, nod, nod..Monty Python.
Ahriman's Playbook book it is we who write
it and it only we who can see it. Let's turn to our hym once
more AH MOre GEt it ON pleases. That is what Bush meant, it wasn't
Bring it ON it was ARma get it on.
...................................................................................................................................
From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:47 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
Bradford wrote:
what is your take on this gathering Storm
and the beauty of the PLANS is that Base upon base will be needed
because it wasn't poor planning at all, it was brilliant planning
to require the drug of American Might and Israel to corral the
Oil and the Muslims.. Because we offered them Democracy and they
didn't take it... whine, whine, mumble...???? wink, wink, nod,
nod..Monty Python.
Ahriman's Playbook book it is we who write
it and it only we who can see it. Let's turn to our hym once
more AH MOre GEt it ON pleases. That is what Bush meant, it wasn't
Bring it ON it was ARma get it on.
Bradford my friend, I am tempted to send you
just a poem (see below) and leave it at it. The fact is, I'm
afraid my take is quite simplistic and may disappoint you. I
see Bush as a well-intentioned man who thought he could change
the world for the better. Considering his press conference, apparently
it is quickly dawning on him that the task is not as simple to
obtain. That road to hell, always so paved with good intentions...
As for putting Armaggedon into the present
picture, it has been a temptation throughout the ages to see
the end as nigh. In our times, just the same, from The Bible
Code to the old man who until recently was carrying a sign on
the streets of London announcing the End and advising us to eat
less fish, less protein etc. Maybe it makes some people deal
better with their own mortality, to think that there won't be
a world for them to miss anymore once they leave this life, or
life leaves them.
Just like to add a thought on critics, of
all sorts: There is always going to be critics. When was total
agreement possible about anything, anyway. There's a saying however,
which comes to mind: "The dogs bark, and the caravan passes."
Now, for the poem.
I know the truth - give up
all other truths!
No need for people anywhere on earth to struggle.
Look - it is evening, look, it is nearly night:
what do you speak of, poets, lovers, generals?
The wind is level now, the
earth is wet with dew,
the storm of stars in the sky will turn to quiet.
And soon all of us will sleep under the earth, we
who never let each other sleep above it.
1915 Marina Tsvetayeva, trans. Elaine Feinstein
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:02 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
zapdingo wrote:
As for putting Armaggedon into the present
picture, it has been a temptation throughout the ages to see
the end as nigh. In our times, just the same, from The Bible
Code to the old man who until recently was carrying a sign on
the streets of London announcing the End and advising us to eat
less fish, less protein etc.
Bradford asks for some spine here;
Hello, I don't think it is the end of the
world. That is the friggin point. I don't think it is the Armageddon
intersection. I think this is a projection out of the Play book
of a total Fundamental illusion. I think Fundmentalism of all
stripes has hungered in the hatred brewing for this type of phony
confrontation and I think, sorry to blow a hole in naiveness
here, but I think that this inherent psychology stands behind
how to plant America right in the middle of this desert hallucination.
Because we know this isn't it..however it
like it for brewing Ideologies in Islam-Judaism and Fundamental
Christianity. So Bryan a little testy on the simple boy Bush.
I think you're right, he is the simple boy Bush, but that isn't
the impetus behind the scenes and in your naiveness we have to
elliminate the behind the scenes just so you can sleep better
at night.
That ain't gonna happen and I should think
you could come up with a better dip in the ole brain stew than
Gee Bush bit off more than he can chew... We can do better and
I really may be off base, but not in the direction you have sent
this. I don't believe at all in Armageddon coming down... I believe
it looks that way for those who in their swirling unconscious
dogma experience nothing but the dead husk of Biblical interpretation.
That means Legion!
Nice Poem but apparently some ostrich has
made a nest in your yard. I cry not for Armageddon, I cry for
dispelling the illusion of a building bubble of hatred brewing
that just might explode and polarize everything.
Gotta defend our Boys, their bein shot ya
Know!
Thanks for the response, did I misunderstand
you? I'm probably in that frame of mind where I can easily miss
the point.
...................................................................................................................................
From: winters_diana
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
Bryan wrote:
I see Bush as a well-intentioned man who
thought he could change the world for the better. Considering
his press conference, apparently it is quickly dawning on him
that the task is not as simple to obtain. That road to hell,
always so paved with good intentions...
I found the press conference the other night
distressing because it became clear to me, from how unusually
well (for Bush) he spoke (I was waiting for Bush malapropisms
and there really weren't any, unless you count the somewhat tasteless
remark about how it is not fun to see dead people on television)
that this guy does believe what he is saying, does believe in
his own mission, that God wants the US to do all this. I became
convinced that Bush is a man of sincere religious faith.
I think that's the scary part, I don't think he's anyone's puppet,
"brotherhoods" etc. The idea of "brotherhoods"
running things, Bradford, I think that's the naive comfort. Just
like the who killed the Kennedys, it's really scarier to think
there's not a conspiracy, nor anyone with a playbook.
Diana
...................................................................................................................................
From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:45 pm
Subject: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
Bradford wrote:
Thanks for the response, did I misunderstand
you? I'm probably in that frame of mind where I can easily miss
the point.
If that is the case, I misunderstood you first
when I got the armaggedon point wrong. My apologies. Yeah, there
are certainly more things out there which I can't see, no doubt,
it's not a simple picture but the simple picture is all I am
sure about, and that I knew would disappoint you, my friend.
True, I catch a glimpse of "what is behind" now and
then and try to bring it forward, like the bin Laden tape. Because
when I read what "the enemy" writes and see myself
in "the enemy", meaning I could stand behind of most
that was said by him, even though I still see him first and foremost
as a nutty mass murderer, I know there's a discrepancy that may
be a sign of something else. I am not, however, into speculating
what this something else is, I leave that to others who in my
opinion can do a better job of it. I try to look at facts only,
and take them in without much judgement, and that's a task I
find challenging enough most of the time. By the way, that's
why arguing is something I stay away from and don't intend getting
into with you. You have your opinions, which I respect and enjoy
learning, and I'm not here to try to change your or anybody else's
mind to my views, which is why I tend to express them little
and keep to the joking and providing info. I give you the dots,
my friend, you connect them as you like.
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)
Bradford asks for some spine here;
Dottie asks for some truth here;
Bradford,
Just because you see it the way you do, does
not make it truth. To say others are lacking because their opinions
differ from yours is stunting. And its not because we want to
sleep better at night rather it is because we require of our
spirit to take in all sides and allow the spirit to work within
us to 'see' and to 'hear' between the rhetoric that abounds in
mankind, spiritual science or no spiritual science. All hubba
hubba burrowing further towards the earth is going to be an ant
hole which falls in upon itself.
I can see the higher aspect that is being
wrought through George Bush and I also see the path to damnation
as well. Did we need to take this path? Was there none other
that would wake up the world to brotherhood even if it is against
America? In Spain they stand with their hands in the air for
a sign of Peace. They put their hands in paint and put them on
paper for their sign of Peace. Stunning. What an inspiration.
And you can see by there actions they are leading in a manner
that would have been ideal for America if she had leaders in
place that could envision past their noses. But the people cried
for revenge and blood for blood.
The end is going to come no doubt about that.
But how will it come and will we have come to brotherhood of
man before this moment? Or will we have put all these bad people
on one side and dismiss them or will we work to be the example
of Gods love. Yes, God does speak to people. And yes, some of
us do hear God. The Angels speak for God, the Archangels speak
for God, the birds, the waters, the sky and all of Gods creatures
represent God in our world. And the mantra is Love, love, love,
love, love, love, love, love, love,love, love, love, love,
And yes it is as humble as Jesus teaching
us to turn our cheeks not seven times but seventy times seven.
And no, not on your terms but on that part of you that you do
not fully experience within: Christ. For if one does allow oneself
to experience Christ within and without one will never harm their
brothers not even through the spoken word.
And this manner of being does not mean there
is no spine. No, this manner of being is righteousness. And not
that arrogant righteousness showing itself all over the place
rather a righteousness that allows one to love his brother as
he loves Christ, in all its glory.
Dottie
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to subscribe to anthroposophy_tomorrow
April/May
2004
The Uncle
Taz "Anthroposophy Tomorrow" Files
Anthroposophy & Anarchism
Anthroposophy & Scientology
Anthroposophical
Morsels
Anthroposophy,
Critics, and Controversy
