Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

 

From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:34 am
Subject: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

This is from the last Bin Laden tape, apparently authentic:

"Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice bears greater blame."

See the whole text here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3628069.stm

The one who starts injustice. Reminds me of siblings pointing the finger at each other when trying to explain who started a fight.

Rasputin, the "evil monk", adviser to the Romanovs, was asked if warfare would ever end, and answered impatiently that wars will end when little boys stop fist fighting.

Bryan

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From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:24 am
Subject: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

zapdingo wrote:

This is from the last Bin Laden tape, apparently authentic:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3628069.stm

The one who starts injustice. Reminds me of siblings pointing the finger at each other when trying to explain who started a fight.

Rasputin, the "evil monk", adviser to the Romanovs, was asked if warfare would ever end, and answered impatiently that wars will end when little boys stop fist fighting.

Bryan

Some aspects of how the collision and train wreck of Judaism, Islam and Fundamental Christianity are being brought to head can be understood from the tape. It is odd how news rarely runs the full text, especially when it is not some black operations planted tape. Steiner's study in hatred, from the other thread is a stunning perspective, but as in reading the text of Bin Laden, we never wish to savor and understand but rather blur over if true Justice happens to come from our current Neon Terror Poster Boy or True Justice is outlined in the richness of Dr. Steiner.

thanks for this:

From Bin Laden:

"Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water? Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice bears greater blame."


"In my hands there is a message to remind you that justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them.

The greatest rule of safety is justice, and stopping injustice and aggression. It was said: Oppression kills the oppressors and the hotbed of injustice is evil. The situation in occupied Palestine is an example. What happened on 11 September [2001] and 11 March [the Madrid train bombings] is your commodity that was returned to you.

It is known that security is a pressing necessity for all mankind. We do not agree that you should monopolise it only for yourselves. Also, vigilant people do not allow their politicians to tamper with their security.

Having said this, we would like to inform you that labelling us and our acts as terrorism is also a description of you and of your acts. Reaction comes at the same level as the original action. Our acts are reaction to your own acts, which are represented by the destruction and killing of our kinfolk in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine.

The act that horrified the world; that is, the killing of the old, handicapped [Hamas spiritual leader] Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, may God have mercy on him, is sufficient evidence.

We pledge to God that we will punish America for him, God willing.

Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water? Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice bears greater blame."

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From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:29 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

Bradford wrote:

It is odd how news rarely runs the full text, especially when it is not some black operations planted tape.

Yes, indeed. And you get amazing surprises going to the sources, which is recommended when one wants to form one's opinion free from media bias and other people's agendas.

It can also be fun. I remember, for instance, reading the Starr report at the time of its release. The full text was - and still is - available in the net(for example: http://www.cnn.com/starr.report/)

There was so much talk about the cigar episode but for me the funniest was the description of a sexual encounter with Ms. Lewinsky which ends with the president er, "releasing" himself in the sink at the Oval office's bathroom. Tsk, tsk.

Bryan

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From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:51 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

zap wrote:

with Ms. Lewinsky which ends with the president er, "releasing" himself in the sink at the Oval office's bathroom. Tsk, tsk.

Bryan

You're right, it is a damn sense of humor about it all. However Bryan, with humor without, what is your take on this gathering Storm and the beauty of the PLANS is that Base upon base will be needed because it wasn't poor planning at all, it was brilliant planning to require the drug of American Might and Israel to corral the Oil and the Muslims.. Because we offered them Democracy and they didn't take it... whine, whine, mumble...???? wink, wink, nod, nod..Monty Python.

Ahriman's Playbook book it is we who write it and it only we who can see it. Let's turn to our hym once more AH MOre GEt it ON pleases. That is what Bush meant, it wasn't Bring it ON it was ARma get it on.

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From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:47 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

Bradford wrote:

what is your take on this gathering Storm and the beauty of the PLANS is that Base upon base will be needed because it wasn't poor planning at all, it was brilliant planning to require the drug of American Might and Israel to corral the Oil and the Muslims.. Because we offered them Democracy and they didn't take it... whine, whine, mumble...???? wink, wink, nod, nod..Monty Python.

Ahriman's Playbook book it is we who write it and it only we who can see it. Let's turn to our hym once more AH MOre GEt it ON pleases. That is what Bush meant, it wasn't Bring it ON it was ARma get it on.

Bradford my friend, I am tempted to send you just a poem (see below) and leave it at it. The fact is, I'm afraid my take is quite simplistic and may disappoint you. I see Bush as a well-intentioned man who thought he could change the world for the better. Considering his press conference, apparently it is quickly dawning on him that the task is not as simple to obtain. That road to hell, always so paved with good intentions...

As for putting Armaggedon into the present picture, it has been a temptation throughout the ages to see the end as nigh. In our times, just the same, from The Bible Code to the old man who until recently was carrying a sign on the streets of London announcing the End and advising us to eat less fish, less protein etc. Maybe it makes some people deal better with their own mortality, to think that there won't be a world for them to miss anymore once they leave this life, or life leaves them.

Just like to add a thought on critics, of all sorts: There is always going to be critics. When was total agreement possible about anything, anyway. There's a saying however, which comes to mind: "The dogs bark, and the caravan passes."

Now, for the poem.

I know the truth - give up all other truths!
No need for people anywhere on earth to struggle.
Look - it is evening, look, it is nearly night:
what do you speak of, poets, lovers, generals?

The wind is level now, the earth is wet with dew,
the storm of stars in the sky will turn to quiet.
And soon all of us will sleep under the earth, we
who never let each other sleep above it.

1915 Marina Tsvetayeva, trans. Elaine Feinstein

Bryan

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From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:02 am
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

zapdingo wrote:

As for putting Armaggedon into the present picture, it has been a temptation throughout the ages to see the end as nigh. In our times, just the same, from The Bible Code to the old man who until recently was carrying a sign on the streets of London announcing the End and advising us to eat less fish, less protein etc.

Bradford asks for some spine here;

Hello, I don't think it is the end of the world. That is the friggin point. I don't think it is the Armageddon intersection. I think this is a projection out of the Play book of a total Fundamental illusion. I think Fundmentalism of all stripes has hungered in the hatred brewing for this type of phony confrontation and I think, sorry to blow a hole in naiveness here, but I think that this inherent psychology stands behind how to plant America right in the middle of this desert hallucination.

Because we know this isn't it..however it like it for brewing Ideologies in Islam-Judaism and Fundamental Christianity. So Bryan a little testy on the simple boy Bush. I think you're right, he is the simple boy Bush, but that isn't the impetus behind the scenes and in your naiveness we have to elliminate the behind the scenes just so you can sleep better at night.

That ain't gonna happen and I should think you could come up with a better dip in the ole brain stew than Gee Bush bit off more than he can chew... We can do better and I really may be off base, but not in the direction you have sent this. I don't believe at all in Armageddon coming down... I believe it looks that way for those who in their swirling unconscious dogma experience nothing but the dead husk of Biblical interpretation. That means Legion!

Nice Poem but apparently some ostrich has made a nest in your yard. I cry not for Armageddon, I cry for dispelling the illusion of a building bubble of hatred brewing that just might explode and polarize everything.

Gotta defend our Boys, their bein shot ya Know!

Thanks for the response, did I misunderstand you? I'm probably in that frame of mind where I can easily miss the point.

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From: winters_diana
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

Bryan wrote:

I see Bush as a well-intentioned man who thought he could change the world for the better. Considering his press conference, apparently it is quickly dawning on him that the task is not as simple to obtain. That road to hell, always so paved with good intentions...

I found the press conference the other night distressing because it became clear to me, from how unusually well (for Bush) he spoke (I was waiting for Bush malapropisms and there really weren't any, unless you count the somewhat tasteless remark about how it is not fun to see dead people on television) that this guy does believe what he is saying, does believe in his own mission, that God wants the US to do all this. I became convinced that Bush is a man of sincere religious faith. I think that's the scary part, I don't think he's anyone's puppet, "brotherhoods" etc. The idea of "brotherhoods" running things, Bradford, I think that's the naive comfort. Just like the who killed the Kennedys, it's really scarier to think there's not a conspiracy, nor anyone with a playbook.

Diana

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From: zapdingo
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:45 pm
Subject: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

Bradford wrote:

Thanks for the response, did I misunderstand you? I'm probably in that frame of mind where I can easily miss the point.

If that is the case, I misunderstood you first when I got the armaggedon point wrong. My apologies. Yeah, there are certainly more things out there which I can't see, no doubt, it's not a simple picture but the simple picture is all I am sure about, and that I knew would disappoint you, my friend. True, I catch a glimpse of "what is behind" now and then and try to bring it forward, like the bin Laden tape. Because when I read what "the enemy" writes and see myself in "the enemy", meaning I could stand behind of most that was said by him, even though I still see him first and foremost as a nutty mass murderer, I know there's a discrepancy that may be a sign of something else. I am not, however, into speculating what this something else is, I leave that to others who in my opinion can do a better job of it. I try to look at facts only, and take them in without much judgement, and that's a task I find challenging enough most of the time. By the way, that's why arguing is something I stay away from and don't intend getting into with you. You have your opinions, which I respect and enjoy learning, and I'm not here to try to change your or anybody else's mind to my views, which is why I tend to express them little and keep to the joking and providing info. I give you the dots, my friend, you connect them as you like.

Bryan

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From: dottie zold
Date: Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: Bin Laden Tape (or Why Warfare Never Ends)

Bradford asks for some spine here;

Dottie asks for some truth here;

Bradford,

Just because you see it the way you do, does not make it truth. To say others are lacking because their opinions differ from yours is stunting. And its not because we want to sleep better at night rather it is because we require of our spirit to take in all sides and allow the spirit to work within us to 'see' and to 'hear' between the rhetoric that abounds in mankind, spiritual science or no spiritual science. All hubba hubba burrowing further towards the earth is going to be an ant hole which falls in upon itself.

I can see the higher aspect that is being wrought through George Bush and I also see the path to damnation as well. Did we need to take this path? Was there none other that would wake up the world to brotherhood even if it is against America? In Spain they stand with their hands in the air for a sign of Peace. They put their hands in paint and put them on paper for their sign of Peace. Stunning. What an inspiration. And you can see by there actions they are leading in a manner that would have been ideal for America if she had leaders in place that could envision past their noses. But the people cried for revenge and blood for blood.

The end is going to come no doubt about that. But how will it come and will we have come to brotherhood of man before this moment? Or will we have put all these bad people on one side and dismiss them or will we work to be the example of Gods love. Yes, God does speak to people. And yes, some of us do hear God. The Angels speak for God, the Archangels speak for God, the birds, the waters, the sky and all of Gods creatures represent God in our world. And the mantra is Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love,love, love, love, love,

And yes it is as humble as Jesus teaching us to turn our cheeks not seven times but seventy times seven. And no, not on your terms but on that part of you that you do not fully experience within: Christ. For if one does allow oneself to experience Christ within and without one will never harm their brothers not even through the spoken word.

And this manner of being does not mean there is no spine. No, this manner of being is righteousness. And not that arrogant righteousness showing itself all over the place rather a righteousness that allows one to love his brother as he loves Christ, in all its glory.

Dottie

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