Clarification of the term 'Racist'
From: raymon_ford
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 7:29 am
Subject: Clarification of the term 'Racist'
Gidday Peter,
Thanks for your earlier replies. I had misread
your earlier statements a bit so need to make a new start; I'll
ask you to make a clarification below so as to be sure I understand
your position.
I see you noting elsewhere that your six weeks
are up – I for one hope you stay on a bit more. This is
a fascinating exchange of views we are seeing here. I believe
the membership of this group has increased considerably since
you and Diana came on – perhaps the administrator can comment
whether there is indeed a correlation – if so it would suggest
significant interest in what you both are bringing to this forum.
The clarification I am after is as follows
(these statements purposely omit more contentious elements, and
so will appear frivolous to some, but I am not intending any
mockery of the issues involved):
Statement A: `In the future humanity will
be divided into two races, one which appreciates the eating of
icecream, the other which does not.'
Statement B: `The ability to appreciate the
eating of icecream denotes that the race possessing this quality
is higher than the other.'
With respect to your argument, is statement
A racist in itself, or must it be combined with statement B to
be so considered?
See ya, Raymon
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Clarification of the term
'Racist'
Hi Raymon, thanks for your post. You wrote:
The clarification I am after is as follows
(these statements purposely omit more contentious elements, and
so will appear frivolous to some, but I am not intending any
mockery of the issues involved):
Statement A: `In the future humanity will
be divided into two races, one which appreciates the eating of
icecream, the other which does not.'
Statement B: `The ability to appreciate
the eating of icecream denotes that the race possessing this
quality is higher than the other.'
With respect to your argument, is statement
A racist in itself, or must it be combined with statement B to
be so considered?
I think a combination of A and B is needed to qualify as racist,
though there are also several other versions of B that would
do the trick. Just saying that there are or will be different
races but that they won't have any significant distinguishing
features isn't necessarily racist in itself. When the ostensibly
distinguishing features are invested with spiritual meaning and/or
ranked in some sort of order, then it becomes racist, in my view.
If the person who made statement A also held icecream eating
to be some sort of central human activity, then that would also
fit.
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Clarification of the term 'Racist'
Peter Staudenmaier
When the ostensibly distinguishing features
are invested with spiritual meaning and/or ranked in some sort
of order, then it becomes racist, in my view.
Bradford comments;
Let us take colors - Blue - Green - Red -
Yellow - White - Purple - Orange. After Harvey, I have to give
reality and Truth some air, I trot out the horse of truth, and
I don't even expect this to compute, which.. well there was a
wonderful comparison once...
But -
Blue
Green
Red
Yellow
White
Purple
Orange
Saturday
Friday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Sunday
Saturday
Thursday
Now if those were Races, we see that they
seem to be in no particular order. If I came in on a Tuesday,
or was born on a Tuesday, I would be a Tuesday person.
If I was from the Orange race, perhaps Thursday
would be special to me.
If I paint a picture and use dominating blue
and green or use the primary colors, I could be describing three
different types of people who create a whole family... a whole
new painting of reality.
The Order of the days of the week we follow,
are charted as our Business emphasis. But for Islam Friday may
be important and for the Jews, Satuday more important and for
Quasi Christians, perhaps Sunday is important.
Perhaps for an I AM all these days are important.
I had to write a poem for each child in my class, yearly; and
they spoke them before the class, on every day that their day
come up during the run of the week.
Now Newtonian color and Race and Noah's promise
from some divine being was this:
"God said to Noah : ...
I will make My covenant with you, and all life will never be
cut short by the waters of a flood. ...
"God said: This is the
sign that I am providing for the covenant between Me, you, and
every living creature with you, for all generations: I have placed
My rainbow in the clouds .... The rainbow will be in the clouds,
and I will see it to recall the eternal covenant ...." [Gen. 27:8-16]
Now when we look at thinking, and we are far
into the refreshing springs of thought, away from any ability
Peter Staudenmaier's has to follow us, we understand the Newtonian
and Goethean Color Theory, a triangle and a prism. A triangle
that lets light through is like the I AM.
But every detail of research where we uncover
7 Post Atlantean cultural epochs, or we arrange, a pattern, Copper-Iron-Zinc-Lead-Silver-Gold-Mercury
and we see that these things have various values. Copper serves
a very important need, and it is different than gold. Iron serves
culture differently than Lead. But both are very different.
We can go on like this for days and days,
showing the difference in different etheric bodies, Languages,
festivals, foods, and they pattern themselves all on the 7 fold
contract of the mythical Noah.
So if we speak over the head of one contracted,
little, useless intellect and make them all grey.. than all those
differences disappear. You see dear friends, to describe the
differences and the different values of precious metals, colors,
musical tones, we find that we cannot make music anymore. Cannot
paint anymore, because all of these differences are RACIST.
Your comments?
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Clarification of the
term 'Racist'
Hi Bradford, you wrote:
You see dear friends, to describe the differences and the
different values of precious metals, colors, musical tones, we
find that we cannot make music anymore. Cannot paint anymore,
because all of these differences are RACIST.
Difference is wonderful. The vast majority of theories about
difference are not racist. But a few of them are. One of the
racist ones is the theory that sorts racial differences into
"higher" and "lower" categories. That is
the theory that Rudolf Steiner taught. Repudiating that theory
does not require you to reject difference as such.
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 9:58 pm
Subject: Re: Clarification of the term 'Racist'
Peter Staudenmaier wrote:
One of the racist ones is the theory that
sorts racial differences into "higher" and "lower"
categories.
Today Johnny had to sit in the corner cause
he said a bad word. Now there is Justice in this. It could be
the first signs of behavior disorder. That would make someone
different. Not better or worse but it would single them out,
but who has singled them out?
When I used to line up my class, it would
sometimes be by birthday month. In otherwords January starts
the front of the line, to go to recess. Sometimes I would use
height, the tallest last or the tallest first.
now a stone is a wonderful thing;
now a plant is a wonderful thing;
now an animal is wonderful thing;
now a human being is wonderful thing;
Is there a higher and lower order in them.
Oh, let us look at the horizontal spine of the poor animal, now
we look at the vertical spine of the human. Now we look at the
roots of the plant, pointing into the earth. Now we look at the
head of the human, raised to the sky. Are there higher and lower
orders, ranks, Beings?
Now my Newtonian theories are very, very sound,
but I get no credit for letting you in on the secret. The Contract
with Humanity was based on 7 different, and interesting qualities.
Some of them imprinted in etheric capacity.
Based on the types of studies that were pursued
in the Classical world, the Seven Liberal Arts became codified
in late antiquity by such writers as Varro and Martianus Capella.
In medieval times, the Seven Liberal Arts offered a canonical
way of depicting the realms of higher learning.
The Liberal Arts were divided into the Trivium
("the three roads") and the Quadrivium ("the four
roads").
The Trivium consisted of:
Grammar
Rhetoric
Logic
The Quadrivium consisted of:
Arithmetic -- Number in itself
Geometry -- Number in space
Music, Harmonics, or Tuning Theory -- Number in time
Astronomy or Cosmology -- Number in space and time
Now for someone like you, Peter, certainly
you are talented, specifically talented in at least one of these
areas. The Red Violin might be worth more than any Violin, or
the Olympic gold medalist has won the 1st prize and was awarded
Gold.. not Lead, but gold, not copper, not brass.. Is there a
higher and lower ranking here?
In concert piano - in math - in spelling BEEs
- in the Lottery... now the Lottery is one of the few wins that
really don't reveal much about the winner. Destiny and Greed
are funny that way. Suppose you can eat the most pies and are
the fattest person in the entire world, you are the greatest
and best fat person in the world.
Now, suppose your skin color is the best ebony,
judged on smoothness and texture, your skin tone is world wide
recognized. Helen, Helen of Troy, was not ranked fifth in beauty,
and who is to judge? Certainly not Peter Staudenmaier.
The most interesting use of ivory and jade,
the greatest most world renown carvings in ivory and jade were
the Chinese. Also the Zen Garden and Oriental flower arrangements.
In the intricate jade and Ivory carvings and wooden dimsional
landscapes and figures of these stunning oriental carvings, we
can see all the way back to Atlantis and the foreheads,, why
are all the foreheads of these ancient and wise Chinese so tall,
such large heads, why? Did they see it that way?
Islam loves Friday
Israel loves Saturday
Christians love hypocrisy
Now, our solar system has a very big hot thing,
it is the biggest thing in the solar system. Lions are some of
the most loud and dangerous creatures in the Jungle..agile, fangy..and
Kings like them. But wait we can't have higher and lower can
we?
I am not the best basketball player in the
world
I am not the best soccer player in the world
But there is a best basketball player in the world
There is a best soccer player in the world.
There is a coldest spot on Earth and there
is a warmest spot on Earth. There is Intelligence and Stupidity.
There is Retardation and Perfection. And on these foundations
of common sense and reality we build discernment. Now would you
rather go into the ocean with the biggest shark on the planet
or a baby, tiny small shark?
What is your favorite color? Do you prefer
Men or Women? Do you like your cloths starched and stiff or soft?
Are stones equal to animals? If the British Government encouraged
the Opium trade and Opium dens and addicted tens of thousands
of souls to Opium, so that their incarnations were wasted, wasted
etheric body, wasted astral body, wasted in a dark, dream, unused,
contributing nothing but worshiping the Poppy, entranced only
by the Poppy.. failing family, children, jobs, human activity...
What form do you think these people will take
in their next incarnation. Will their forces be stunted, as if
they had missed a whole chunk of time and life? If a man loses
his limb in one incarnation, will he born again with out limb
or whole? Did the man born blind, did he sin in the womb, or
is there no accounting for any moral perfection or imperfection.
If
you have a zit full of puss on your face, is that perfection
or imperfection. Perhaps it is the Perfect Zit like having a
Perfect Storm. So why had African Americans kinky hair? What
is the specific quality in the blood that makes for Redheads?
Brunettes? When I shake a persons hand and it is extremely sweaty
or small, fat and stubby, does that tell me about a person. Can
I gather information from a person through form, word, thought
and deed? Are there regular Professional Tests that catagorize
personalities by types that are used in business? Can a computer
find you an ideal mate?
Are ranks in the military, Politics, or a
bar valid? Should the maritime ships captain be the same as the
steward? Rank, category, discernment, quality, enrichment and
judgement. Relying on the maturity and ever ripening perception
and discernment of human insight can bring exceptional wisdom...
Is there such thing as exceptional Perfection?
Can humans perfect themselves even to a rank above Human?
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Fri Apr 9, 2004 8:55 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Clarification of the
term 'Racist'
Hi again Bradford, you wrote:
the Olympic gold medalist has won the 1st prize and was awarded
Gold.. not Lead, but gold, not copper, not brass.. Is there a
higher and lower ranking here?
Yes. The gold medal is ranked higher than the silver medal, which
is in turn ranked higher than the bronze medal. That's what ranking
means.
But wait we can't have higher and lower can we?
Sure we can. Higher and lower olympic medals is a fine idea.
Higher and lower races is a racist idea. Get it?
There is a best soccer player in the world.
Yep. There's just not a best race in the world. Race isn't a
competition, unlike soccer games and olympic events.
or is there no accounting for any moral perfection or imperfection.
There is no accounting for moral perfection or imperfection in
racial terms. Race has nothing to do with moral perfection or
imperfection (neither does soccer, by the way).
Yours for discernment,
Peter
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