Steiner's definitions
Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
From: holderlin66
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 2:22 am
Subject: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Peter
Staudenmaier wrote:
Sure, you could say that. I wouldn't even
necessarily quibble with much of it. The question is quite simply,
why can't you say both of these things? Why can't you
say that Steiner revealed the greatest history of the core of
I AM research of all time, and that some of what he said on the
topic was racist?
Peter
Bradford responds;
Well if you have a man with two brains, yes.
My brain and your brain certainly. Then there is how Steiner
built up the incredible, as you say, "greatest history of
the core of I AM research of all time". Gathering immense
field data Atlantis, migrations, retardation of clairvoyance,
collecting the insights of those wide variety of different soul
constitutions that had lost the ancient Atlantean clairvoyance;
or who represented the new Loss and beginning of the flicker
of the early I AM cognition in the physical world, without the
ever present domination of the gods.
It is not a question, as you had put, of quantity
but of the quality of the research. It is not how I had, or did,
or formerly understood the reasoning of such statements and descriptions
of Races, but how the whole puzzle began to make sense, as a
whole, from the wholeness of Initation Science. I recognized
that my intellect merely skimmed the surface of data.
Seeing how our reasoning, from a narrow perspective,
could easily dismiss out of context, upon hearing some apparently
bizarre or abstract idea that was hard to grasp. Steiner does
say shocking things, but there are actual reasons and wisdom
which we have been hardly prepared to deal with. However, Steiner's
research begs me to admit that there were deeper insights that
I could not have understood without Initiation Science. Nor can
you. Here your limitations are as glaring as mine were.
Steiner presented insights that were Beings
and he presented factors and aspects of Retardation that had
not the same meaning as the narrow eye view everyone accepted
and were satisfied with. The Scopes Trial revealed a new form
of retardation, that divided Fundamental literalism against the
Darwinian Science paradigms of evolution. But Steiner is way,
way beyond that. His is truly grounded Initiation Science and
methods of renewing and freeing the kernel of the I Am from etheric
habits of thought.
There were Initiation insights into the Fall,
that were no longer mythic or merely Biblical. The infection
of our astral bodies with concepts that color and cloud the complex
evolution of Mankind and in a Luciferic infection, bind people
to certain fallen astral factors were illuminated with clarity.
There were vaster issues of Initation Science that had entered
under Hitler and specific destinies from Greece, Rome and the
historical unfolding of what is now known as a common Cult of
Personality (People Magazine-Stars) had arisen around the time
of the Initation of Nero.
That is why Christ came at a specific point
in history, where Personality could bind itself to lower or higher
astral beings. Historically Personality and the Cult of Personality
was also when the Personality of Jesus was infused with a God
and Nero wanted Initation but only gained lower Luciferic infection
of his Astral body. Things like this, I don't expect you to understand,
but they expanded my horizons and startled me. Things you need
to have startle you, so that you actually get a thinking education
and not merely a dialectical education.
You know, I wondered why Racism and the hypocrisy
of Dr. Steiner was your target. One question I had, was, is there
an African American issue here, because being myself a humanist,
I could see that the strong statements and descriptions of various
groups that Steiner depicted, could call forth a fairly strong
response. A response not guided by the growth of insight, but
rather by the apparent strength of subjective reaction.
Lets take something you think you understand,
but you don't. The Childhood, limber Etheric body issue of the
African American has everything to do with how humanity relates
to the etheric body and the limberness of the etheric body. The
faith, hope that they imbued, through enforced slavery, into
America, brought renewed MoTown, youthful vigor back into the
dying Western psyche. Steiner's Observation of what was meant
by Childhood was different than the Old Age etheric forces of
the Red Man's Saturn penetrated etheric bodies.
The Native Americans were the Wise Eco Masters
of minimalism, with no earthly Temples except the raw brotherhood
of Nature, and their own warm intimacy of silent worship. They
reflected the ancient Saturn forces... of Old Age. Part of your
problem, of course is obvious, that etheric capacities in various
groups, like the African Americans, have proven that they rejuvenated
with limber childhood forces, the failing etheric bodies and
culture of the West. Dried out Pilgrims would have crippled anything
that America would have become. The African Americans were hijacked
and forced to infuse the west with new childhood vigor.
If the RedNeck only wants to associate with
his White Racism, he binds himself, not to his I AM development,
but he even inbreeds himself into binding his spirit to failed
and retarded concepts of Race. This is a sin against the etheric
body and an untracked infection stemming from the Luciferic influences
in the astral body. The RedNeck bigots himself and his I Am into
repeating a connection over and over to a retarded view point,
which he, as a Red Neck, a certified Jeff Foxworthy Redneck,
a Rebel Confederate flag RedNeck, narrows and darkens his own
connection to wider concepts of Self. This is not in dispute,
this is exacting experience. Hating blacks, spic, jews, mexicans...gad..
the very name New York City is a dirty phrase.
This binding to ignorance puts a drag on not
only the I AM but causes cultural retardation overall. Individual
etheric bodies are darkened and gradually amass repeated errors
unpenetrated by I Am thought. The etheric forces get sucked down
into repeated race and the race, whoever or whatever collects
these souls who refuse the I Am development, gradually decay
and wind down, new immune issues, diseases, sickle cell etc..
arise from within the depleted etheric structure.
Humanity is harmed if one group, one race
imagines that it is superior. If Nazi's thought that they and
only they were to be bred, (again inbred, selective breeding,
un-natural selection) they bound themselves to the retarding
forces of this one race which was not only Nationalistic by etherically
binding in an occult sense. Eventually the Poltical and ethnic
isolation would cause a collapse of the immune system and specific
racial diseases would reveal the flaw in such controlled ahrimanic
selection techniques.
If humanity seeks to clone a perfect form
of human, we again bind ourselves, without a concept of the I
AM to a certain type. We will design a physical type, with an
immune system built out of etheric selection. This New Man, this
etherically selected type is grown from the bottom up and anchored
to the bottom dregs of race, not to the high side of I AM development
which reshapes, habits and reinserts itself into time. The I
Am reshapes face, glint of eye, astral abilities, etheric habits.
The I Am breaks addictions, insures that dysfunctions are not
repeated in a family over and over. The I AM reshapes itself
from within and is carried as further progress by the individual
who reincarnates.
So your form of Racism is looking at the base
substance, which I AM's use as needed for their further karmic
directions. However this etheric vehicle can be stiff and unuseable
if concepts like Racism, from RedNecks or Mormons or Hindu's
become havens for one sided racial concepts. Therefore, humanity
is in danger of not being able to understand Cloning and the
Etheric relation to the I Am and creating a whole fallen etheric
type that will not be able to be used by I Am's. These are things
you cannot see, even if you attempt to understand them, you aren't
mature enough either in science or Initiation insight to see
how these things fit.
Because we would have to explore particular
immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various
races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded
or depleted.
For you, you place this Racial material as
the key to determining what is ethical. I know you think that
is what Steiner did, but that is not what Steiner did, that is
what you are doing to Steiner. You leave out the dullness of
repeated etheric errors or repeated and collected Luciferic astral
errors.
You leave out current 1999 Ahrimanic selection
methods that are arising and being continued in cloning from
the Nazi's initial Ahrimanic science of selection. Where as,
having learned to think deeper on the subject, it is the I AM
that chooses the material and must penetrate the etheric, racial
and hereditary model. Steiner researched so richly that our failure
to grasp Initiation Science leaves us with the dregs of our common
terms and education, bereft.
It is the I Am that chooses the parents and
the deserved, unworked through etheric forces, which play heavily
on the total etheric group if it collects souls who have thus
far refused to take hold of the I Am. Whereas for you it would
appear that Race chooses the I AM and somehow you think you can
pin Steiner with this emphasis. The study of the various etheric
ailments in races, specific immune problems..well I may just
show you what foolishness your are attempting by putting physical
race against etheric quality and etheric retardation.
For this entire discussion, no hint that etheric
bodies and the I Am's in them, can find themselves in unworked
through and progressively darker and stiffer karmic circumstances.
The relation of etheric and immune system specificity in races
has been avoided because of your ignorance. Your one sided focus
on Race, puts you in the stagnant etheric body category. Whereas
Steiner was not in such a category, He is just so large you cannot
get your mind around it. Narrowed vision is where your critical
intense focus leads. It leads to a focus on the wrong end of
the scale and no knowledge of how souls retard the group etheric
body of the race they are attracted to and the etheric quality
of choice of parents they are attracted to.
But Steiner did not focus on the wrong end
of the scale. He pointed out, he is the first to point out, that
I AM's choose their parents and the karmic factors, or place
of incarnation and the language and thought forces they need
or have earned. Steiner turned Racism on its head. While looking
over the whole aspect of what a binding attraction to one Race,
one Religion, one Nationalistic pathology could mean, we have
to take into consideration the quality of the etheric bodies
and the damaging effect to the whole when people choose group
opinion and prejudice over individually won insight. Why the
Jews racial etheric body was attacked by Ahrimanic and Nazi elements
was due to an antipathy to the imprint that the Christ had on
this particular group through his I Am implosion into that racial
group.
Now, following this line of argument, there
is no question what so ever that certain aspects of radical Jewish
nationalism, religious binding dogmas and marriage mandates of
the blood and loyalties, lock many unsuspecting or karmically
disposed souls to attract themselves towards weaker etheric bodies
because they must needs have the support of the group ego that
such a closed system supports. Why? Because they have not, and,
in most cases, have refused to break free of the binding factors
of dogma, race and blood, tied to religion. Souls find a weak
pocket of etheric supported dogmatic beliefs where their I Am's
have refused to do any work, but merely want to be told what
to believe by their Daddy's or their Rabbi's and must fight like
Woody Allen to dig their way through the thick Freudian morass
of unilluminated etheric debris to the light of the I AM.
This is clearly a fatal attraction which gradually,
as in RedNecks, inbreeding, or mandated marriages, thicken and
weaken the etheric body, so that the I AM cannot and has refused
to penetrate again and again over time. Now Steiner does not
say Christianity is a religion, he calls The Christ a FACT. Christ
is a Fact not a religion. Every I AM is a fact.
Animals have groups souls, they are not individuals.
So we have to understand a tendency to drift back to group soul
etheric, ego, crutches and retardation. Souls who bind themselves
dogmatically to any specific race, diminishes the strength of
their I Am and generally retards whatever group they are in by
not contributing to the emancipation of their etheric body from
the group. Etheric and racial types are there for I AM's to use
and emancipate and lift the qualities to a higher region of soul.
Etheric to Life Body. Races and etheric qualities, to Life body
and the whole Etheric Earth.
Now all this that I have mentioned can be
proven in individual cases. It amounts to this. You can build
an understanding of Race on the basis of Group Soul animal behavior
or Group Identity and you must include the unemancipated etheric
and astral bodies. These factors gradually hinder, collect and
trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable
forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group.
They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific racial
immune problems.
Finally, we are moving towards a retarded
large swath, a division of good and bad etheric racial issues.
Those who have chosen time and time again to follow the Redneck
paradigm, the Jeff Foxworthy class drop outs, who couldn't even
laugh at themselves are constantly getting themselves attracted
to this dense and hardening etheric field. All Ahrimanic Science
will do is create a Cloned condition that freezes the mobility
of a certain type or types of etheric body, because they, and
you, never understood that an etheric base was even there.
Or, there are those who rise to brotherhood,
I AM cosmopolitan cognition of I AM thinking, sharing and vision.
They use their capacities and have individualized and emancipated
their own etheric bodies, which will reshape their physical appearance
through the nature of the inner content of their I Am's. They
have awakened their astral and I Am's and these now work on remodeling,
all the way down to the physical.
So that is how it can be understood from both
sides. So yes, you can see it from the side of Race or from the
side of the greatest contribution to the history and dynamics
of the I Am, which leads one to the Mystery of Golgotha and the
Emancipation of the human I Am from race and harvesting the Life
Body from the Earth.
Bradford
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 10:21 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Peter on Race/Bradford
on I AM
Hi Bradford, you wrote:
Gathering immense field data Atlantis,
migrations, retardation of clairvoyance, collecting the insights
of those wide variety of different soul constitutions that had
lost the ancient Atlantean clairvoyance; or who represented the
new Loss and beginning of the flicker of the early I AM cognition
in the physical world, without the ever present domination of
the gods.
I'm probably missing part of what you're getting at, but it sounds
like you're not answering the question I asked. Let's stipulate
that Steiner did all of the things you describe above. What would
this have to do with whether some of his doctrines were racist?
It is not a question, as you had put, of
quantity but of the quality of the research. It is not how I
had, or did, or formerly understood the reasoning of such statements
and descriptions of Races, but how the whole puzzle began to
make sense, as a whole, from the wholeness of Initation Science.
Again, what does that have to do with the issue at hand? Some
"descriptions of Races" are racist, and others are
not. Why would it be the case that only the non-racist kind could
possibly appear in tandem with "Initiation Science"?
Steiner presented insights that were Beings
and he presented factors and aspects of Retardation that had
not the same meaning as the narrow eye view everyone accepted
and were satisfied with.
So what? The question is simply, were some of the insights he
presented racist? Not were they shocking or were they wise, but
just were they racist?
You know, I wondered why Racism and the hypocrisy of Dr. Steiner
was your target.
I don't think that Steiner's racial doctrines were hypocritical.
I do think that some of them were racist. Not sinful, not infected,
but racist.
The etheric forces get sucked down into
repeated race and the race, whoever or whatever collects these
souls who refuse the I Am development, gradually decay and wind
down
Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that souls who refuse
the I Am development incarnate in certain decaying races but
not in other progressing races?
I AM that chooses the material and must penetrate the etheric,
racial and hereditary model.
Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that racial models
are chosen according to spiritual criteria?
knowledge of how souls retard the group
etheric body of the race they are attracted to
Are you saying that you agree with Steiner that stubborn souls,
those that refuse Christ and racial progress, retard certain
races?
Steiner turned Racism on its head.
Why do you believe that these notions turn racism on its head?
Why the Jews racial etheric body was attacked
by Ahrimanic and Nazi elements was due to an antipathy to the
imprint that the Christ had on this particular group through
his I Am implosion into that racial group.
No comment.
Because they have not, and, in most cases, have refused to
break free of the binding factors of dogma, race and blood, tied
to religion.
Are you trying to say that you agree with Steiner that Jewry
as a people is marked by these binding factors?
Souls who bind themselves dogmatically
to any specific race, diminishes the strength of their I Am and
generally retards whatever group they are in by not contributing
to the emancipation of their etheric body from the group. Etheric
and racial types are there for I AM's to use and emancipate and
lift the qualities to a higher region of soul.
Yep, that's what Steiner taught. This kind of racial typology
tied to spiritual evaluation is what the rest of us call racist.
Finally, we are moving towards a retarded large swath, a division
of good and bad etheric racial issues.
So much for race disappearing in the future.
Peter
Peter
Staudenmaier wrote:
Sure, you could say that. I wouldn't even
necessarily quibble with much of it. The question is quite simply,
why can't you say both of these things? Why can't you
say that Steiner revealed the greatest history of the core of
I AM research of all time, and that some of what he said on the
topic was racist?
Now, following this line of argument, there
is no question what so ever that certain aspects of radical Jewish
nationalism, religious binding dogmas and marriage mandates of
the blood and loyalties, lock many unsuspecting or karmically
disposed souls to attract themselves towards weaker etheric bodies
because they must needs have the support of the group ego that
such a closed system supports. Why? Because they have not, and,
in most cases, have refused to break free of the binding factors
of dogma, race and blood, tied to religion. Souls find a weak
pocket of etheric supported dogmatic beliefs where their I Am's
have refused to do any work, but merely want to be told what
to believe by their Daddy's or their Rabbi's and must fight like
Woody Allen to dig their way through the thick Freudian morass
of unilluminated etheric debris to the light of the I AM.
These factors gradually hinder, collect
and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable
forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group.
They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific racial
immune problems.
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Peter Staudenmaier wrote:
Are you saying that you agree with Steiner
that souls who refuse the I Am development incarnate in certain
decaying races but not in other progressing races?
Bradford comments;
Okay before we venture into this and other
questions I would like you to Quid Pro Quo me. Please, I layed
out in the first Peter/Brad topic of this heading, what I have
come to so far.
Could you recap for me, summarize what I gave
in that first long piece and then, Give me what your extended
thought process is in what you believe. Fine if it's with Spirit
or without spirit, however you wish to express it. Just what
is your standpoint, and not just one sentence. I am a big boy
I can handle a whole two paragraphs of your thought.
Please what is your standpoint - temporarily
and ongoing? Please Quid Pro Quo me. (Brief summary of what I
brought and then an extended grasp of your thoughts from your
standpoint)
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Wed Apr 7, 2004 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford
on I AM
Hi Bradford,
as usual, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but I'll
give it my best shot. My standpoint is that the notion of higher
and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing
and spiritually progressing races, is patently racist. Steiner
incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about
racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function
within his broader theory of cosmic development.
Lots of people reject the whole notion of racial evolution and
its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as
incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people.
I think that race has absolutely nothing to do with people's
spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all
racial groups. They do not concentrate in specific racial groups,
much less do specific racial groups represent determinate stages
of spiritual growth and maturity. What do you think?
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Apr 8, 2004 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Peter Staudenmaier wrote:
...as usual, I'm not entirely sure what
you're asking, but I'll give it my best shot. My standpoint is
that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced and decadent
races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing races,
is patently racist. Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical
doctrines about racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve
a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic development.
Lots of people reject the whole notion of racial evolution and
its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as
incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people.
I think that race has absolutely nothing to do with people's
spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all
racial groups. They do not concentrate in specific racial groups,
much less do specific racial groups represent determinate stages
of spiritual growth and maturity. What do you think?
Bradford comments;
You may not remember this encounter between
Geraldine Ferraro and GHB. But you are one patronizing SOB and
I don't need to be patronized to.
GERALDINE FERRARO: Let me just say, first
of all, that I almost resent, Vice President Bush, your patronizing
attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Patronize...
JIM LEHRER: Patronize, don't pat-
PRESIDENT BUSH: Don't patronize, don't patronize
me. I mean there was this...
Here was my actual request:
Please what is your standpoint - temporarily
and ongoing? Please Quid Pro Quo me. (Brief summary of what I
brought and then an extended grasp of your thoughts from your
standpoint)
Well I ain't normally a nit picky person,
but in your attention hungry craveness, I'll make an exception.
You didn't repeat or sum up what I gave and on top of it... here
is what you Patronized me with.
5, count them FIVE, Race or Racial, and again
reminding all of us of your RACIAL Standpoint, you use variations
on this word 5 times in the first paragraph. That is only RACE
or Racial in nearly every sentence and sometimes twice in the
four sentences. Try reading the sentences and saying Race or
Racial loudly when ever you come to one.
5, count them, FIVE, uses of Race or Racial
in the second paragraph. 10 uses of Race or Racial in a mere
10 sentences. I guess, you need to remind me that your thought
process, is locked, double sealed and showing no possible leaks,
when it comes to RACISM or RACIAL or RACES.
This was and is still a sincere request. The
request was again, Sum up what I gave, briefly in your own words,
with my first post on Peter/Brad and then add your opinion in
at least 2 paragraphs. I mean your own view in two paragrapshs
so it doesn't sound like somebody practicing bleeping a horn,
when ever I come to the R-word.
"My standpoint
is that the notion of higher and lower HONK, advanced and decadent
HONK, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing HONK,
is patently HONK. Steiner incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical
doctrines about HONK-HONK evolution. These doctrines, in turn,
serve a crucial function within his broader theory of cosmic
development.
Lots of people reject the whole notion of HONK evolution and
its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as
incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people.
I think that HONK has absolutely nothing to do with people's
spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all
HONK groups. They do not concentrate in specific HONK groups,
much less do specific HONK=HONK groups represent determinate
stages of spiritual growth and maturity."
Well at least I got two paragraph and I saw
how cautious you were, like shaking someones hand with an electric
buzzer in it. No, you don't have to wear the Bozo outfit, HONK.
Just perhaps put some real life into the exchange. Otherwise
I might worry if you are not some electronic HONK hallucination
of your own making. Go on Peter, do it right, give it a shot.
Sum up what I gave in my rather long post...
what I meant or what you thought I meant and than give me two
paragraphs, without super glue on it.
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Fri Apr 9, 2004 8:45 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford
on I AM
Hi Bradford, you wrote:
I don't need to be patronized to.
I'm afraid I can't agree. You do need to be patronized to on
this issue, Bradford. Along with a remarkable number of your
fellow anthroposophists, you have a very shaky grasp of the history
of racism and antisemitism, and you have no sense of how common
it is for lofty spiritual ideals to go hand in hand with these
unfortunate phenomena. Hence you have conspicuous trouble placing
your own belief system in context, and you thus systematically
misunderstand the criticisms that non-anthroposophists sometimes
lodge against various aspects of Steiner's work, such as his
racial and ethnic theories. Until you take the time to learn
more about all this, other people will continue to patronize
to you about it.
you use variations on this word 5 times
in the first paragraph.
Yep. It's a paragraph about race. Maybe you could explain why
you find this peculiar.
add your opinion in at least 2 paragraphs. I mean your own
view in two paragrapshs
That's what I just did. I take you disagree with what I wrote?
You think that the notion of higher and lower races, advanced
and decadent races, spiritually regressing and spiritually progressing
races, is not racist? You think that race has some significant
correlation to people's spiritual state? You think that spiritual
traits are not spread evenly across all racial groups? You think
that spiritual traits concentrate in specific racial groups,
and that specific racial groups represent determinate stages
of spiritual growth and maturity? Do tell.
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Fri Apr 9, 2004 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Bradford comments;
Okay before we venture into this and other
questions I would like you to Quid Pro Quo me. Please, I layed
out in the first Peter/Brad topic of this heading, what I have
come to so far.
Could you recap for me, summarize what I gave
in that first long piece and then, Give me what your extended
thought process is in what you believe. Fine if it's with Spirit
or without spirit, however you wish to express it. Just what
is your standpoint, and not just one sentence. I am a big boy
I can handle a whole two paragraphs of your thought.
Please what is your standpoint - temporarily
and ongoing? Please Quid Pro Quo me. (Brief summary of what I
brought and then an extended grasp of your thoughts from your
standpoint)
Peter in his Patronizing snideness reluctantly
responds;
Summary:
You think that the notion of higher and
lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing
and spiritually progressing races, is not racist? You think that
race has some significant correlation to people's spiritual state?
You think that spiritual traits are not spread evenly across
all racial groups? You think that spiritual traits concentrate
in specific racial groups, and that specific racial groups represent
determinate stages of spiritual growth and maturity? Do tell.
Beliefs in 2 paragraphs:
My standpoint is that the notion of higher
and lower races, advanced and decadent races, spiritually regressing
and spiritually progressing races, is patently racist. Steiner
incorporated this idea into his anthroposophical doctrines about
racial evolution. These doctrines, in turn, serve a crucial function
within his broader theory of cosmic development.
Lots of people reject the whole notion of racial evolution and
its supposed spiritual significance, for excellent reasons, as
incompatible with spiritual awareness. I am one of those people.
I think that race has absolutely nothing to do with people's
spiritual state. Spiritual traits are spread evenly across all
racial groups. They do not concentrate in specific racial groups,
much less do specific racial groups represent determinate stages
of spiritual growth and maturity. What do you think?
Bradford;
Well as outlined in the very first Peter/Bradford
discussion I said that Steiner turned Racism on its Head. In
fact, I went so far as to clearly outline how etheric and hereditary
determinism can influence and drag down culture if souls who
borrow etheric racial substance do not penetrate it with Individual
I Am spiritual strength.
This individual I AM spiritual strength first
wrestles with the hereditary model of the etheric body in childhood
illnesses. If fevers, pox, mumps and various etheric ailments
are prevented through vaccinations, encounters with the etheric
model is pressed downward into the physical and can prevent the
Child from reconfiguring their etheric vehicle and cause later
adult ailments.
When we get our heriditary etheric model,
landing in a culture, language and specific family, the I AM
begins to reshape the substance so that it can be used by the
I AM later.
Spiritual traits are spread evenly across
all racial groups.
The individual I Am brings in their own specific
traits which must be remodeled and re-fit to suit the higher
needs of the incarnating I Am. It is a far higher evaluation
of Etheric Qualities of Race to see the wonderful differences
that various groups carry. These groups carry, etheric racial
groups, carry in their foundations different qualities. The I
AM chooses vehicles, parents, hereditary streams and reworks
them to suit the individual spiritual capacities that they require.
The Angelic community and the Archangelic
communities experience how deeply the I AM had penetrated spiritually
and ethically into the various higher soul conditions. Those
specific core I AM conditions are Sentient Soul - Intellectual
Soul - Consciousness Soul capacities. The I AM has carried their
inner idealism, and spiritual development, as a cohesive impression
to the Angels. The Angelic and Archangelic communities register
this I Am cohesion or they don't.
If they don't the soul does not easily win
the struggle against language, prejudice, religious dogma and
thinking capacities from out of the etheric model. The etheric
and racial model dominates the I AM and here we begin to trace
dysfunction, addictive materialism and failed thinking.
Suppose Siddhartha never ventured out of his
Father's plush kingdom? Never asked a question as to why there
is death, disease, Old Age, rich people and poor people? His
Father's etheric control did not want him to see anything bad,
decaying, disintegrating, dying, but rather remain in a perpetually
undeveloped Paradisical state, a Pre-Fall state of hereditary
illusion. Such an event can happen if the child fails to meet
the etheric model with his own Identity and remodel, with childhood
illnesses his or her etheric body. They gain no observation of
their double and remain with one half of themselves enmeshed
in dysfuction.
The I Am breaks free of the model provided
by the parents and Siddhartha is able to discover his I AM capacities
and break through dysfunction, dogma, pampering, death, karma,
vision and after hundreds of Siddhartha's incarnations, review
of the entire pattern of his incarnations, and break free into
one of the First Born with fully developed higher capacities.
An Early graduate of the real School that the Michael represents.
The Etheric-Racial model of the Buddha and
the force of the accumulated widom of his I Am allows a flood
of strength to infuse the whole of a culture through the strength
of this one I Am. Millions are nourished, not only by the biography
of Buddha, but because his Etheric Life Truths, rayed out as
actual substance through millions of souls.
Steiner incorporated this idea into his
anthroposophical doctrines about racial evolution. These doctrines,
in turn, serve a crucial function within his broader theory of
cosmic development.
O'contraire. Steiner researched, defended,
outlined and made the basis of his scientific research the Fact
of the I AM. The I AM as a fact is the core reason of everything
we see in Nature and every spiritual experience that any human
being has ever had.
Steiner Turned Racism on its head. By locating
the I Am and how humanity can develop the I Am and progress to
ever higher and higher stages, he revealed in the process how
Physical, Etheric, Astral and I AM were the entire contradiction
to the origin of matter and the big bang theory or Darwinian
natural selection. Steiner rightly turned all this on its head.
Mainly retarded thinking is attracted to big bang and Darwinian
selection theories.
Steiner advocated, researched and presented
findings that are indisputable that Nature, chemistry, matter
and the atomic table, the creation and distrubtion of rocks,
plants, animals and humans were rhythmically created just so
the core of the I AM could unfold.
Steiner turned Racism on its head. There is
no big bang theory. There are prepared vehicles so that the I
AM can experience the Physical world with the senses. So that
the I Am can experience inwardly the Life and Etheric body of
the Plants. So that through his passions and his love he or she
can experience the vehicle of his/her Astral body, changing and
transmuting these deeply rooted vehicles into Evolution of the
Earth itself. In other words creation and evolution has a purpose
and a mission.
In other words racial determinism is subjectively
or medically induced and educationaly promoted. Man is not a
by product of the Earth but the Earth Condition was made for
the I AM of man. Human Beings will transmute their astral and
animal forces into Spirit Self. Human Beings well transmute their
etheric hereditary, medical, parenting skills, plant remedies
and agricultural wisdom of every species over the Earth, into
what Buddha achieved as Life Spirit, that spread like a healing
balm over the distant East, before the Christ Event had even
happened.
This in itself revealed that humanity could
win for themselves, higher development because the entire experience
of the Earth and the Karma of humanity was based on the development
of the I AM. Then the I AM entered. Not just a little flickering
I AM, but the Logos spoken of in the John Gospel, made the I
Am the full fact of the entire reason for Earth Evolution and
touched down, or splashed down on this Home World of ours.
Why? Because at the Mystery of Golgotha the
full atomic table, the reconfiguring, mastery of the Music of
the Spheres and the Being who was the corner stone, foundation
stone, among the Gods, the I AM itself carried Earth's karma
to the Hill of Golgotha and defeated the death taint, down to
the last dregs of matter. That does not mean that failed science
and failed humans cannot poison the Earth with nuclear death.
It does mean that the path to the I AM must be a conscious one.
That final phase was winning and reshaping
the entire physical, genetic model of Man, so that the I AM could
reproduce it or dissolve it at will. Here we see the true meanings
of "A Dead Man Walking". In the film, "The Green
Mile" we see what a fragment of the Etheric Body of Christ
could do. This tiny movie fragment reveals the emancipation that
Buddha fully achieved. But what Buddha achieved was what humanity
is destined to achieve and more.
So Steiner turned Racism on its head, left
it in the dust and revealed the mighty mystery of the Etheric
Earth and the Etheric Christ that is living in every plant, in
every atom of matter, but can only be ignited if we overcome
Racism. This is what Steiner, nay, the Stunning Gift of the Science
of the Spirit, gave to mankind in one of the darkest periods
of human catastrophe. I mean, would you call the timing of this
20th century event, an accident? A footnote? You would, but you
have already have proven that you haven't won cognition, merely
intellectual cunning.
It is clear to me Peter that the focus on
Racism is really, first of all, it is how the Intellectual Soul
transforms the Etheric body. That is the job of the Intellectual
Soul. Your pathological focus on Racism hinges on the very substance
of Eco-System, and the Etheric mysteries of Earth and the Green
Movement, which is all of the Etheric body. Your questions, your
pathology is typical when you find that Racism and Etheric and
Green and Life Body of the Earth, go right down to the core of
your I Am. You are knotted in the Intellectual Soul. You have
come across a region in the Intellectual Soul that is one of
the core riddles of humanity. But it eludes you.
Because you fail to get your arms around the
Etheric Body. Even if the Etheric World community of Rainbow
Races and the Greening of the Earth had everything to do with
the human ability to Heal, you still canot see it. Healing, Etheric
miracles, Issues of the Blood...well, that is a little beyond
you, but at least Biodynamic Gardening proves that SPiritual
Science penetrated the mysteries of the Etheric Earth where all
the models that you claim are Racial exist.
That is your question. What is the Etheric
forms and differences spread out in plants and humans and what
are their qualities and can Peter Staudenmaier penetrate this
enigma with his Intellectual Soul? The answer is YOU CANNOT!
You already have and are on the road to so knotting up your Intellectual
Soul with failed materialistic ideas, that you must be excluded
from even understanding the passion of your own question. Ideas
you say? Mere Ideas you say? It is the Aristotle puzzle pieces
of the Intellect of how these IDEAS key code themselves into
the realities and facts of nature and Earth Evolution.
Believe me, Aristotle, the greatest Intellectual
Soul with his 10 categories struggled to piece the riddle together.
His efforts, struggles and having his work go Lost for 100's
of years, before being dug out by some Arab, were imprinted deeply
into Aristotle's I AM. You would be stunned with what all that
Intellectual Soul effort by Aristotle produced and the wisdom
it finally produced in the entelechy of Aristotle. Stunned, startled
and wounded after several incarnations of stunning work, Aristotle
comes shining through.
But Peter, barring some destiny reversal,
some trigger that releases your intellectual question, you are
headed for etheric stagnation.
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:56 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford
on I AM
Good morning Bradford,
it is certainly true that most of what you have written here
eludes me, and I very likely am headed for etheric stagnation,
whatever that might be. But I do find two extremely interesting
strands in your non-reply:
On the one hand, you flatly deny that spiritual traits are spread
evenly across all racial groups, and you apparently believe,
along with Steiner, that specific racial groups represent determinate
stages of
spiritual growth and maturity. (You also seem to have a rather
ambivalent attitude toward what you call "racial determinism",
but it isn't really clear what you're getting at there.) On the
other hand, you plaintively insist that Steiner turned racism
on its head.
In your mind, then, overcoming racism requires attending to the
particular spiritual qualities represented by each racial group,
recognizing the true spiritual significance of racial markers,
and slotting each race into its proper cosmic evolutionary stage.
Is that indeed your view? Looking forward to your reply,
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Peter Staudenmaier wrote: [in
the thread "Reading and Falsehoods"]
This is not how I read the Charles Mann
article, and I'm wondering what others made of it. I don't see
any "rather than" argument in his piece, or certainly
in Henry Dobyns' work. To my mind, there is no question that
enormous numbers of Native Americans died from diseases that
arrived with European settlers, particularly smallpox and typhus.
But this scarcely means that there was no genocide, much less
that Native Americans "had to die out". Enormous numbers
of Europeans died during the Black Plague, for example, but European
populations then recovered, rather than being forced off their
lands by invading colonists who weren't shy about relying on
tactics of wholesale slaughter. Obviously terrible epidemics
do not mean that specific ethnic or racial groups "had to
die out". More to the point, it is hard to see what any
of this might have to do with "racial character".
Peter
Bradford compliments;
Well Peter, that was the richest download
of actual thought content you have given, except for your first
entry outline of terms. Now that was rich, juicy and had substance.
What a wonderful feeling to actually hear a thinking human say
something that lives slightly above the water level. Besides
you only used this little thingy once.
More to the point, it is hard to see what
any of this might have to do with "racial character".
Previously we discussed it this way:
Bradford:
Because we would have to explore particular
immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various
races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded
or depleted.
The study of the various etheric ailments
in races, specific immune problems..well I may just show you
what foolishness your are attempting by putting physical race
against etheric quality and etheric retardation.
Now all this that I have mentioned can
be proven in individual cases. These factors gradually hinder,
collect and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and
unuseable forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial
group. They bog down, break down, and begin to reveal specific
racial immune problems.
Current discussion of the theme:
We come to examination that you express so
confidently 'that of course there is no question that', from
a medical and a Spiritual Science pov; greenhouse etheric bodies,
not only divided by oceans, but etheric bodies, held back from
a region, that had not yet experienced the march of civilization,
that had brought with it, massive changes in the etheric, astral
and vital intellectual foundations of cognition, needed to be
swept into the conditions which we all now face and share. The
preparation for all humanity to slowly get on the same page of
I AM development is still in destructive development.
Prior to what we all now face in modern education
and medicine, there were etheric pockets of geogrpahic regions
that were untouched, virgin, and had not been exposed to the
onslaught of what Islam wants to call the great rolling wave
of Satan.
America as it sweeps
over the globe is updating everyone and some religious groups
reluctantly.The Information Age and the new "Gattica"
and "Blade Runner" and the SUV Age is considered by
some to be an unholy nightmare. Enough so that Iran and Islam
can call America the Great Satan. This compares to a new form
of culturally epidemic disease of politics divorced from brotherhood
sweeping toward the Islamics. Our word is not good enough, neither
are contracts and lies, which is bearing down in the old market
places that you can still visit in Damascus. In Islam there are
etheric repititions of prayer nearly five times a day and a general
Luciferic astral refusal to come to terms with the Ahrimanic
onslaught coming out of the west.
In terms of incarnational history the Arab
aspect of the sciences have already brought forth a vast interior
migration of thought, carried by individuals such as Woodrow
Wilson, deep into the west. In other words, Arabistic thought
forces were used to build the foundations of western science
and politics. But they have now returned in virally potent new
form that souls see severing truth and brotherhood for contracts
and lies. The U.S. handling of the Palastinians is one huge pocket
of lies, unfairness and crippling brotherhood. The dictators
that the U.S. placed in power through out the middle east were
supported tyrants. Humanitarian brotherhood from the west has
taken the shape of fully viral Ahrimanic lie. It is an infection
that Islam will resist and we will willingly tear the region
apart.
But we have to reckon with the past conditions
of the Polynesians, Hawaiians, Mayans and migratory tent life
of Native Americans, as warmly primitive and in much that is
discussed, Polynesians and others as bearing a Luciferic Paradisial
greenhouse etheric effects in their etheric bodies. These isolated
pockets experienced a shock to their etheric forces as western
intelligence and technological development swept in on them.
What kind of shocks come with guns, or bearded
white men that invaded the Mayans? The Mayans thought they were
gods and horses, who the heck ever saw such big dogs? They had
no understanding of the full impact of such a meeting left over
from the migrations east out of Atlantis to the confronatations
and lust for Gold as humanity advanced westward. The old Atlantis
construct is not unlike the meeting of the Pilgrims with the
Native Americans. Plus the Conquestidors had those shining helmets
and the Mayan prophets had scared the crap out of them to expect
such a manifestation to appear as new gods. So the Mayans expected
a Cortez god revelation to arrive... and thsee prophecies were
going two ways.
One was ancient Atlantean left overs, and
that applies to many of the etheric pockets scattered around
in the far West. Memory of disease and memory in the etheric
body, is what gives the race and etheric forces cognition and
maturity, as well as the ability to fight off a disease or absorb
the rush of mechanics, inventions, gun powder, giant ships etc.
If there was no memory in the white cells,
no previous etheric insight in these pockets of etheric geography,
no memory of immune system defenses could have been built. Now
they are there and we examine history and the Conquest a bit
differently. The military today look upon the epidemiology of
the etheric forces as a way to use biological warfare.
The other factor was the catastrophe of the
dark instincts, greed, avarice and lusts that had not even been
fully conscious in the isolated conditions in the west. Except
for the Aztec TAOTL being meeting the Philip the Fair and Spanish
Inquistion being as a concrete bridge from ancient Atlantis to
modern Ahriman. I'm sure the prophets didn't expect a whole wave
of 'civilized depravity' as their new gods. They might have expected
wise Initiates, but that utterly failed with the infection of
greed and avarice from the Church.
But still the Native American and the Canadian
and Inuit tribes of the Arctic are still subject to Alcoholism
and addiction to Junk that Western culture produces. It remains
a lethal addiction, as did the Native Americans in dealing with
their depressive soul conditions when the "Little Big Man"
and Custer crew swept in. Meaning that immunity and self control
that builds not only the Intellectual ability into the foundations
of the I AM, but also the spiritual immunity of control of the
I Am, so that the sheaths are not subject to becoming blind consumer
animal rodents, must be built up through deepened I AM penetration
and cognition. This builds new forces to face ever more conscious
grasp of Etheric, Astral and I AM bodies and self correct Luciferic
and Ahrimanic unconscious influences. EcoChristology is self
correcting esoteric development.
Alaska itself reflects an isolated pocket
that still is impacted strongly by all forms of addiction and
these pockets reveal untransformed weaknesses in the astral,
thought, I AM and etheric bodies faced with the overwhelming
impact of western civilization. One can look into the trials
and tribulations of the Inuit and understand how these various
etheric issues are still reverberating today.
How we account for the fact that the Mongol
Hordes ran riot in their instincts also reveals a flaw in your
understanding of karma and illness. It shatters the idea that
everything is equal. This race or that race all bear equal soul
conditions. Not so. Obviously everything is not equal. Beings
in the astral body are now acting as retarded forces in the Relgious
Islamic culture, the Fundamental Christiian culture and Judaism.
We are standing at the brink of just how destructive
these retardation forces in the soul can be. They are not individualized
yet, but still subject to retarded paradigms. The west is imposing,
by all the numbers, particularly those numbers that show who
uses the worlds major resources in glut and greed, the West impinges
and imposes still on further pockets of souls who have failed
to cope with brotherhood and EcoChristology. Whole groups bear
a differnt soul perspective than loving Dialectical materialism
or supporting failed thought forms of EcoFascism.
Here we arrive not merely at racial theory
but a clash in the spread of Ahrimanic culture into cultures
who have failed to take up the strengthening of I AM inner development
and brotherhood. Word has not got out and this is a Michael School
failure to some degree.
Blatant Nationalism, and religious dogma have
come to the center of how Arabistic thought in the west, Christless
thought in the West, Ahrimanic Science, has come back to roost
in the region where Arabistic Science was carried through incarnation
after incarnation into the far west. New forms of hatred, racism
and ethnic/religious cleansing is being undertaken with the same
stupidity as the Crusades and the Conquestidors. It is a complete
failure of thinking and understanding history that produces such
atrocity.
Frances Bacon and Darwin arose as the founders
and carriers of Arabistic Science. Their Karma as individuals
has been traced by Steiner. Steiner arose as the bearer of I
AM cognition which penetrates with Conscious strengthening of
the etheric and immune system, through clarity, by penetrating
into cultural retardation and deepening the grasp over the Etheric
Life Body of the Earth and her various blending of cultures and
races.
The current infections of astral bodies and
the retardation of I AM clarity into Politics, bioEthics and
the Christ event as Fact has revealed Luciferic pockets and Ahrimanic
pockets of thinking that continue to fail to enter through the
gates of the I AM. This failure of penetration leads to new confronations,
no longer based on race, only as a secondary issue, but more
to do with Ahrimanic and Luciferic intentions to block the hearts
and minds from elaborating healthy EcoChristianity through the
approach to self correction and I AM cognition in every individual.
Steiner's healthy EcoChristology, by any other
name, brotherhood for instance, reflects the dire hope of the
Angelic community working feverishly against the Ahrimanic deceptions
in the soul life of humanity. If the deception of Dialectical
materialism spreads it will literally sever humanity from the
moral sphere of the Gods. Once again the intention of the Earth,
the mission of the Earth, is not the elimination of humanity
but rather the individual work of Harvesting the Life Body of
the Earth. That which you do to the least of these in the etheric
body, we do to the whole Etheric Life body of the Earth.
We are currently engaged in EcoTerrorism world
wide.
Aspects of the Great Satan
...................................................................................................................................
From: Peter Staudenmaier
Date: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter on Race/Bradford
on I AM
Hi Bradford, you wrote:
Because we would have to explore particular
immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various
races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded
or depleted.
Why do you believe that there are any particular immune system
and disease weaknesses that are typical of entire races as such?
These factors gradually hinder, collect
and trap certain souls into failed dogmatic beliefs and unuseable
forces of thought which damage the entire etheric racial group.
Which etheric racial groups do you have in mind?
They bog down, break down, and begin to
reveal specific racial immune problems.
Such as?
Peter
...................................................................................................................................
From: eyecueco
Date: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:12 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
Peter Staudenmaier wrote:
Hi Bradford, you wrote:
Because we would have to explore particular
immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical in various
races to find out where the etheric forces have been retarded
or depleted.
Why do you believe that there are any particular
immune system and disease weaknesses that are typical of entire
races as such?
Wonder why Peter doesn't believe this possible?
What about sickle-cell anemia, for an example?
"This disease is an inherited
blood disorder that occurs almost exclusively in blacks. It is
caused by an abnormality in the pigment hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying
component of the red blood cells. The defective hemoglobinÑcalled
hemoglobin SÑcauses the red blood cells to become rigid
and "sickle" shaped rather than flexible and round.
These deformed cells are brittle and easily destroyed, leading
to the symptoms of sickle-cell disease."
Race
and Disease
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:52 am
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
eyecueco wrote:
Wonder why Peter doesn't believe this possible?
What about sickle-cell anemia, for an example?
"This disease is an
inherited blood disorder that occurs almost exclusively in blacks.
It is caused by an abnormality in the pigment hemoglobin, the
oxygen-carrying component of the red blood cells. The defective
hemoglobinÑcalled hemoglobin SÑcauses the red blood
cells to become rigid and "sickle" shaped rather than
flexible and round. These deformed cells are brittle and easily
destroyed, leading to the symptoms of sickle-cell disease."
Dear Paulina;
Ever feel like you got a gig to tap dance
in front of an audience of amutees? But it is sufficient unto
the daylight to know that having spent more time training and
tracking the research validity of the Etheric body as the basis
for any physical issue of race, I apparently stand with a couple
of us, who must have read Dr. Steiner and faintly understood
him and, if wonders be told, actually looked deeply into current
issues of sciences.
The etheric forces of races were formerly
under the vast Rainbow attributes that I have harped on for the
Anthroposophically Impaired reader, who still doesn't get it.
Nor when we measure the colors, days of the week or the etheric
and racial attributes down to the immune system, we still get,
well opposition. What? Did I expect agreement from compass less
Mominialistic gamers?
Politically Correct soul blinders.
http://www.sallysatelmd.com/
"This is Sally Satel's
opening salvo in her brilliantly waged war against the forces
of political correctness. Drawing on a wealth of information,
much of it never revealed before, PC, M.D. documents for the
first time what happens when the tenets of political correctness—
including victimology, multiculturalism and the rejection of
fixed truths and individual autonomy—are allowed to enter
the fortress of medicine. Consider these examples:
A professor at the Harvard
School of Public Health teaches her students that racial discrimination
causes high blood pressure among blacks—an unsubstantiated
and dangerous "truth."
Former psychiatric patients,
calling themselves "consumer-survivors," condemn the
health care system for violating their human rights. They are
on a crusade to "limit the powers of psychiatry by making
consumers full partners in diagnosis and treatment."
Nurses charge that they are
so oppressed by the male-dominated medical system that they can't
give their patients optimal care.
The consequences of putting
politics before health are far-reaching, argues Satel. It wastes
taxpayer money on bogus research and diverts resources that could
be used to discover authentic causes of suffering, provide proven
therapies, and rigorously investigate new ones. PC, M.D. is a
powerful wake-up call to the medical profession and to patients,
who are the ultimate victims of these disturbing trends."
[ This same waste counts on the moral account
for those who spend their time linking fascism to Anthropsophy.
It is diddling with the Angels precious time]
"Saunders recently presented
a study showing that African Americans respond better to a new
drug, eplerenone, that selectively blocks aldosterone, a hormone
that causes the body to retain sodium, whereas ACE inhibitors
and ARBs do not fully restrict the hormone's action. At the meeting
of the International Society for Hypertension in Blacks in Miami
this year, the Association of Black Cardiologists presented a
similar heart failure study specifically targeted to African
Americans in which the nitric oxide-enhancing drug BiDil was
found to have a significant effect only in blacks, who some believe
to have low nitric oxide activity. But even given these results,
Saunders cautioned against categorical assumptions that race
is a determining factor. 'We're not talking about race as a genetic
situation, we're talking about it as a marker,' he said.
Others, however, firmly maintain
that taking race into account could improve diagnosis and treatment
of disease. Physician and ethicist Sally Satel, in her article
'I am a Racially Profiling Doctor' in The New York Times Magazine,
builds a case that taking into account the skin colour of her
patients improves her diagnosis and treatment. When prescribing
Prozac, for example, she starts an African American patient on
a lower dose than a white patient, 'in part because clinical
experience and pharmacological research show that many blacks
metabolise antidepressants more slowly than Caucasians and Asians.
As a result, levels of the medication can build up and make side-effects
more likely.' Skin colour itself is not the issue, Satel explains,
but 'the evolutionary history indicated by skin colour.'
'Skin colour can convey some
useful information beyond skin colour, e.g. a higher risk of
sickle cell disease or a higher likelihood of response to certain
hypertensives,' acknowledges Catarina Kiefe, from the Department
of Medicine at the University of Alabama in Birmingham. "
...................................................................................................................................
From: winters_diana
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Bradford referred us to this web site:
http://www.sallysatelmd.com/
and then he quotes:
"This is Sally Satel's
opening salvo in her brilliantly waged war against the forces
of political correctness." <snip>
then Bradford writes:
[ This same waste counts on the moral account
for those who spend their time linking fascism to Anthropsophy.
It is diddling with the Angels precious time]
He then pastes in another quote, which follows
below. I can't find this second quote on the Satel web site.
Is that where it is from, Bradford? Can you direct me? If not,
where did you find the material below? Can you please give us
the link? thanks!
Diana
"Saunders recently
presented a study showing that African Americans respond better
to a new drug, eplerenone, that selectively blocks aldosterone,
a hormone that causes the body to retain sodium, whereas ACE
inhibitors and ARBs do not fully restrict the hormone's action.
At the meeting of the International Society for Hypertension
in Blacks in Miami this year, the Association of Black Cardiologists
presented a similar heart failure study specifically targeted
to African Americans in which the nitric oxide-enhancing drug
BiDil was found to have a significant effect only in blacks,
who some believe to have low nitric oxide activity. But even
given these results, Saunders cautioned against categorical assumptions
that race is a determining factor. 'We're not talking about race
as a genetic situation, we're talking about it as a marker,'
he said.
Others, however, firmly
maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis
and treatment of disease. Physician and ethicist Sally Satel,
in her article 'I am a Racially Profiling Doctor' in The New
York Times Magazine, builds a case that taking into account the
skin colour of her patients improves her diagnosis and treatment.
When prescribing Prozac, for example, she starts an African American
patient on a lower dose than a white patient, 'in part because
clinical experience and pharmacological research show that many
blacks metabolise antidepressants more slowly than Caucasians
and Asians. As a result, levels of the medication can build up
and make side-effects more likely.' Skin colour itself is not
the issue, Satel explains, but 'the evolutionary history indicated
by skin colour.'
'Skin colour can convey
some useful information beyond skin colour, e.g. a higher risk
of sickle cell disease or a higher likelihood of response to
certain hypertensives,' acknowledges Catarina Kiefe, from the
Department of Medicine at the University of Alabama in Birmingham.
"
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
winters_diana wrote:
I can't find this second quote on the Satel
web site. Is that where it is from, Bradford? Can you direct
me?
Diana;
I hope you appreciate irony. Not that I haven't
very enjoyed the discussions via learning letters, shapes and
etheric building blocks to the childs soul life.. but here is
reminder about Political Correctness. You remember the following
sentence well I have another sentence for you to try on in the
changing room, and see if it fits?
Former psychiatric patients,
calling themselves "consumer-survivors," condemn the
health care system for violating their human rights. They are
on a crusade to "limit the powers of psychiatry by making
consumers full partners in diagnosis and treatment."
Bradford might check his irony meter here:
"Former Waldorf
parents, calling themselves "Waldorf Critics," condemn
and undermine the foundation of the Waldorf system of education
for violating their politically correct human rights, claiming
to have been unconscous victims of a massive cult deception.
They are on a crusade to "limit the powers of the entire
Waldorf Movement and Anthroposophy itself by making unsuspecting
dolts full partners in declaring they are victims, embracing
the cult of victimology and seeking as many victims of magic,
racism, pony betting, and worst, Morning verses that uuugha-booghaed
the soul of their precious children."
Welcome to Victimology and the new Politically
Correct World of marshmellows.
Oh, and:
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/embor/journal/v3/n8/full/embor090.html
...................................................................................................................................
From: winters_diana
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Thank you Bradford, I'll have more to say
when I'm not too tired to reread it.
Diana
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/embor/journal/v3/n8/full/embor090.html
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:37 pm
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Etheric and Physical interplays;
Etheric body variables have mixed and distributed
themselves over wide global regions, even if we consider that
they once arose as bloodline Kingdoms, royal blood to be protected
and shared under the rules of the classes and Caste Systems.
These apparently originated out of the pool of the etheric worlds
and the inner etheric qualities of the planets. The I AM of the
modern world of the 21st century, if they are lucky, chooses
specific etheric variables that it requires. These delicate shades
and variables have become more and more unique and individualized
the more I AM's have required and aquired various strengths,
weaknesses, and needed specific geographic regions, and language
orientations in order to fulfill their karma.
Spiritual Science has often examined the availability
of unique physical, etheric, and astral qualities needed by advanced
Initiates in order to incarnate. Naturally such concepts jar
the whimsical nature of the Politically correct. Individual capacities
and general capacities have often brought the Angelic community
into the hereditary stream of humanity to help shape the right
vehicle for the mission of various advanced souls. John the Baptist
and Jesus were profoundly close even in the womb. The Bach family
sought a family with musical and highly developed EAr and tonal
grasp from a specific elemental region.
Diet, language and geographic region play
a part in the early development of childhood. However as humanity
and urban style of life has arisen, locality and attachment to
various regions have tapered off. However you truly know when
you are encountering imbeded regional etheric colorings when
you hear the regional twang and flavor, accent and style of a
speaker. It was known that you could locate that person by their
unique twang and indiviudual voice modulation geographically.
You could locate someone on the global map by their accent. This
has always been a raw window into etheric perception and flavor
of exactly where a human being hailed from.
But these are all part of the living etheric
markers, flavors and tangible proof of etheric geography. Tangible
encounters with the individual etheric temperament, language
and thought substance can be wonderfully explored just by hearing
people talk. How much a person is able to emancipate and free
up their own regional accent and attachments, try out different
foods, associate with all religions, races, languages, the more
that person penetrates and learns about the mysteries of their
own Life body and the Etheric Earth.
Paracelsus could take unique regional remedies
and literally grasp their geographic as well as medicinal etheric
connection to the Earth and the health of a human being. Edgar
Cayce would wander as a sleeping prophet in his astral body and
find cures and remedies for diagnosis by letter. Cacyce would
examine the patient in his astral body by hovering and viewing
the patient all the while Cayce would be in a mild trance thousands
of miles away.
The Christ paradigm of emancipating the etheric
forces locked into Races, religions and nationalistic patterns
of behavior established in the soul life, requires you to leave
father and mother, your father's etheric and your mother and
mother's tongue astral dominating forces and feel comfortable
among many if not all the different cultures and peoples of the
world. Slowly we learn the mysteries of the etheric earth by
also learning about our own etheric drawbacks that we take in,
when we take in mother and father, sister and brother binding
influences. The more you can blend in, the more you become a
citizen of the human race instead of any specific race. Family
dysfunction must be overcome and penetrated by the I AM and victimology
must be overcome.
Inbreeding and racial and relgious retardation
fail to unfold transforming and transmuting I AM effects into
the etheric body that one has aquired through incarnation. Here
we come upon multi-layers of various dysfunctions from child
abuse to psychological quirks, tics and habits that have taken
over where the I AM was unable to penetrate the etheric model.
This etheric model is any model of blood and heredity where we
incarnated.
It is one thing to purport to the world in
some politically correct manner that you think so and so has
racial issues, it is another to look at your own house and understand
etheric variables, astral variables and have a good universal
sense of the I AM as an incarnating being.
Failing to have aquired these foundations,
and I do mean you, you are not even near where Spiritual Science
begins to transform the soul. Which is why in many cases Spiritual
Science came with a warning label for those who attempted to
try to understand these issues without grasping Spiritual Science.
Marie Steiner put many warning labels in front of Steiner's esoteric
works so that curious intellects would not assume they could
crack open a book and read it the same way they read sports illustrated
or Country Living. Becoming all at once instant intellectual
experts on racial theory.
Now in the roots of various recycled etheric
racial and immune issues a whole host of strange distortions
arise. It must be noted that the very Iodine content in the thyroid
was once compared in Spiritual Science studies with what both
Goethe and Napoleon needed for their specific thyroid contents.
As the I AM progresses, these modulated chemical balances are
less and less the result of accident or fate but rather requirements
for the I AM to bring into reality various capacities that will
serve the unfolding I AM. Iodine content and small differences
in chemical substance have been proven markers, even when it
comes to specific medication and medical prescriptions and how
each body generally absorbs remedies and at what rate.
All of this goes to prove over and over again
and again that not only are there differences in soul and individual
etheric qualities but also from the general pool of humanity,
various qualities still reveal very subtle and unique differences,
colorings, immune sytem strengths and weaknesses, all the way
to blood circulation and I Q.
Far from Racial and Etheric forces being the
same the subtle differences I had indicated in this whole discussion
can be examined in countless ways medically. Current Genetic
Theory is merely resetting etheric clock and memory mechanisms
in the cell, if that is even possible.
Genetics and the double Helix remarkable coding
are all revealed in the Nordic double helix patterns that go
to the roots of hell, to the heights of the gods. All based on
the double helix. The double helix is a highly esoteric cording
and knotting, as Celtic rope work indicates... Here in such Celtic
Knotting we would find curious etheric patterns to be studied.
For Example: Indications refering to Gene
and Immune system below are all ETHERIC BODY and Astral body
FACTORS!!!
"Among the most famous
examples are the elevated rates of sickle- cell anemia among
African-Americans and of beta-thalassemia, another hemoglobin
disorder, among those of Mediterranean heritage.
Both traits evolved to help
the ancestors of these groups resist malaria infection, but both
prove lethal when inherited in a double dose. As with differences
in skin pigmentation, the pressure of the environment to develop
a group-wide trait was powerful, and the means to do so simple
and straightforward, through the alteration of a single gene.
Another cause of group differences
is the so-called founder effect. In such cases, the high prevalence
of an unusual condition in a population can be traced to a founding
ancestor who happened to carry a novel mutation into the region.
Over many generations of comparative
isolation and inbreeding, the community, like it or not, became
"enriched" with the founder's disorder. The founder
effect explains the high incidence of Huntington's neurodegenerative
disease in the Lake Maracaibo region of Venezuela, and of Tay-Sachs
disease among Ashkenazi Jews.
"Ethnicity is a broad
concept that encompasses both genetics and culture," Dr.
Anand said. "Thinking about ethnicity is a way to bring
together questions of a person's biology, lifestyle, diet, rather
than just focusing on race. Ethnicity is about phenotype and
genotype, and, if you define the terms of your study, it allows
you to look at differences between groups in a valid way."
In investigating the reasons
behind the high incidence of cardiovascular disease among people
from the Indian subcontinent, for example, Dr. Anand discovered
that Indians had comparatively elevated amounts of clotting factors
in their blood."
...................................................................................................................................
From: winters_diana
Date: Sat May 1, 2004 5:52 am
Subject: Re: Peter on Race/Bradford on I AM
Thanks for the link, Bradford. I had already
managed to find it (google never lets me down). I thought I remembered
reading this in some other context (synchronicity, eh).
You snipped a nice paragraph, after the guy
says, "'We're not talking about race as a genetic situation,
we're talking about it as a marker" in order to jump quickly
to an apparently opposing view: "Others, however, firmly
maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis
and treatment of disease" etc. When I examined what you
snipped, I was not surprised to find that it elaborates on how
race is essentially a marker. Here's the missing paragraph:
"Joseph Graves Jr, Professor
of Evolutionary Biology at the University of Arizona in Phoenix,
goes even further, saying that physicians should not use skin
colour to diagnose and treat individuals, but only family history.
'What most people would describe as African American, 80% of
that individual's genes originate somewhere in Africa. But others
with the same appearance might have inherited varying amounts
of genes from American Indians, Europeans and Africans,' Graves
said. 'African Americans do have unique health needs,' he acknowledges,
but he also felt that the complex interaction between socioeconomic
and environmental conditions contributed more than genetics.
For instance, 90% of Africans in Nigeria have the 235T mutation
in the ACE gene locus—a marker for hypertension—but
only 10% actually have hypertension. Compare that with 85% of
African Americans with the mutation, and over 30% who have the
disease, Graves pointed out. Scientists like Saunders may thus
be reaching the right answer for the wrong reason, he suggested.
Saunders concluded that taking race into account in diagnosing
and treating disease could be useful but also dangerous when
attributing health aspects to race and genetics 'when we just
don't know.'"
The paragraph that followed, to recap, was
this:
"Others, however, firmly
maintain that taking race into account could improve diagnosis
and treatment of disease. Physician and ethicist Sally Satel,
in her article 'I am a Racially Profiling Doctor' in The New
York Times Magazine, builds a case that taking into account the
skin colour of her patients improves her diagnosis and treatment.
When prescribing Prozac, for example, she starts an African American
patient on a lower dose than a white patient, 'in part because
clinical experience and pharmacological research show that many
blacks metabolise antidepressants more slowly than Caucasians
and Asians. As a result, levels of the medication can build up
and make side-effects more likely.' Skin colour itself is not
the issue, Satel explains, but 'the evolutionary history indicated
by skin colour.'"
So Satel herself is actually using race, or
rather, skin color, as a marker. The dissenters are essentially
fighting with a straw man. No one (well, few people) really disagree
that race can and should be used in medicine. As a marker. That's
really what those insisting race be taken into account are saying
anyway. The guy says, it's a system we can function in even if
we don't believe it (I lost this precise quote). It has its purposes
– it's the closest we can get, at the moment, with certain
things we don't understand the causes or true origins of. I doubt,
somehow, that science is going to end up realizing it was "racial
character" they were getting at all along. Things like,
sickle cell as an adaptation to malaria, are much more helpful
in figuring out the "why" and the "how to treat"
for most diseases.
Diana
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Sat May 1, 2004 9:57 am
Subject: Re: Diana/Bradford on I AM
winters_diana wrote:
GENETIC MARKERS
Bradford responds;
At least I found that you intelligently understood
some of the parameters of how Spiritual Science flows into understanding
Race and how Science is catching up to it. I mean that. I admire
your efforts in wrestling this through. But lets get into this
a little deeper. I shall present a series of connections that
really haven't been brought together very clearly. This is probably
almost a first.
The whole argument that I enjoyed most was
based on "The Founders Model" or "Founders Gene"
where Spiritual Science traces our research to an Atlantis that
AMA and materialistic Science refuses to say existed. And Ancient
Primal Gene specifics were given in Atlantis under the vivid
Imagination of various double helix coding.. And I will explain.
Spiritual Science has outlined a number of
islands between Ireland and Florida in the Atlantic Ocean or
between Azore Spain and Florida and each island had a different
planetary mystery center connected with it. Here the gooey Frog
sperm was pliably and etherically sung into the coding for each
specific race and "Founder Gene". In the great fog
of Atlantis we might hear, not croaking, but Mystery Center of
the Mothers, singing in ELF tones, Genetic code. But wait, I
will reveal why this is so, a real Anthro first. Let me go off
here for a second. We should be used to this fly ball to left
field approach I have. Interesting questions call forth interesting
responses.
Spiritual Science has isolated the tonal structural
coming from the planets in specific forms. These forms are called
"The Seals of the Planets" they are what is heard in
the subsonic or Extreme Low Frequency waves or ElF waves. So
that we have, exclusively out of Spiritual Science and nowhere
else, metal seals that show the Mars tonal imprint in the etheric;
Venus tonal imprint in the etheric; Jupiter tonal imprint in
the etheric; Saturn Tonal imprint.
Now these seals, in the early development
of humanity, in the watery and foggy Atlantis, were tonal etheric
science sung into matter by Planetary Initiates that resided
on the Atlantean islands. The Chladni experiments we do in Waldorf
School reveal how matter is shaped by tone. Matter and reproduction
at that time were still under the maternalistic and close association
with plant reproduction and had not yet become the seed bearing
paternalistic reality we face now in stiff matter.
The Time frame I am looking at for Atlantis
and their Gene Manipulated and GM modifications run into well
past 50,000 years. Because we can safely locate a horrific flood
from the water erosion of the Sphinx itself which must have stood
there for nearly 10,000 years. So that the Flood of Atlantis
is roughly placed the way Plato indicated it with Solan.
Diana, while I do not expect you to grasp
these issues, at least your good research helped me to uncover
such a phrase as "markers". What ever in the vague
universe a Marker refers to aside from gambling, is to say that
on the human genome a certain set of configurations and coding
in the double helix will give skin color and patterns of weakness
or perhaps even give racial targets for the incarnating, out
from the Spiritual World into Matter, I AM.
When I say, double helix and gentic coding,
I am looking at the Nordic Picture Consciousness out of Atlantis
that was based on the Double Helix. This Atlantean picture consciousness
is exactly what Nefelheim was all about. The Atlanteans were
living in the imaginations of the Genetic Coding that would be
shaped by Etheric forces. The Etheric forces at the time of Atlantis,
as the Maternal aspects of development were stronger, shaped
matter out of the Double Helix pattern we are looking at in Yggdrasil.
So don't even expect to understand in one
gulp how "Markers" in the coding of genes is some Socially
or culturally little gene shift that anybody and their uncle
could accomplish. This is Science fantasy and you can dream on.What
I just brought is also a kind of fantasy. Spiritual Science Fantasy.
Bradford
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