PLANS cloak-and-dagger


From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:01 am
Subject: PLANS cloak-and-dagger

In a recent post - "Thank you Jakob" - I said that the question of which organization is most cultlike here and which is most morally bankrupt are questions for others to answer. In the same post, I provided a link to a WC post by Gary about me - written at a time when I was not monitoring or subscribing to that list.

Upon rereading it, I see that it is so full of venom and "dirty fighting" that it may be expedient to comment the details. And in the small world we're living in, Gary is addressing you here, Mike. (No wonder you got him fired up with the quote about their creepy tea party and their Peters with wet gunpowder!)

Re: Thank you Joel, From a lurker
Gary Bonhiver
Feb 11, 2002 20:12 PST

Thank you Michael!

on 2/11/02 8:22 PM, Michael Helsher wrote:

[snip]
I also agree with uncle Taz when he says this is a "creepy, grumpy, misanthropic tea party". I found his website to be a good counter effort:
http://home.no.net/tastraum/index.html .
[snip]
In my view "The decisive question is not how many Peters you have," saith Uncle Taz, " but whether or not their gunpowder is dry." As far as we can see, Staudenmaier and Zegers are all wet, and so is their gunpowder. Read, and judge for yourselves". I don't consider myself an anthroposophist per say, but I obviously have strong sympathies for it, and Waldorf education as well.

[Gary]
You've selected QUITE the role model for representing your Anthroposophical and Waldorf sympathies.

[Comment]
Yes, you've got Gary all fired up here, Mike. He's so furious he's almost out of control, frothing at the mouth as it were. And then he goes for my jugular in my absence:

[Gary]
Tarjei is well known to us. Do YOU know the same Tarjei that we know?

Tarjei, the proud father if a teenage son who posted a graphic bloody, gory web page last year and boasted about it on waldorf-critics, providing the link for all the world to see? (he's since taken it down)

[Comment]
My son is a teenager today at 13, but back then, he was only 11, so Gary was mistaken here. And this demonstrates how unscrupulous and insidious and brutal these PLANS people can be: My son, who attends Waldorf school in another city on the west coast of Norway where he lives with his mother, who is also an anthroposophist as well as a Waldorf teacher, had been staying with me for some weeks immediately before I subscribed to the WC for the second time. He spends most of his time playing computer games while he's here, but i asked him if he wanted to design a webpage instead for a change. And he did, collecting some strange graphics from spooky playsites of heads with dripping blood. I was a fool to allow PLANS to get hold of that page, but I had no premoniton of how utterly hysterically crazy they could become. They jumped not only all over me, but all over my 11 year old like rabid vultures, and they wouldn't leave him alone. He needed professional help, he was sick sick sick, he would become a serial killer if noone interfered. His terrible terrible webpage was to be used as an example of what Waldorf education was doing to children; it should be a warning to prospective Waldorf parents. This went on and on and on throughout the summer of 2001. And it's still there, in the WC archives, because the PLANS people have no moral scruples what the protection of children is concerned. My son is growing up fast, 14 in a month, and when he's 18, I may persuade him to sue PLANS for publishing such garbage about a minor who is not even participating in the discussion.

[Gary]
Tarjei, the developer of his own current "Skulls" page which was formerly
named "Death Page"?

[Comment]
I thought Gary was referring to my Dali picture at http://www.uncletaz.com/classgallery/Dali/atmosph.html but he may be thinking about "Symbol of the Skull" http://www.uncletaz.com/skullpage.html that they've linked up to from the PLANS site. The PLANS people hold the notion that my webpages will prove to outsiders how wacky and dangerous anthroposophists are. So be it.

[Gary]
Tarjei, the author of the following posts?

-- snip --
What we need is a mole on Dan's Critics Only list. A loyal apop who has never posted to the WC list and who can impersonate a Steiner-hater. The mission is to infiltrate the critics' inner off-list circle and gather intelligence. The agent must take a loyalty oath to the Goethanum, to Anthroposophia, and to Michael, and be sworn in to defend AP with occult weapons against all enemies domestic and foreign. Any volunteers?
-- snip --

-- snip --
In addition, we need more reports like this - lots more. We need a Tet Offensive against PLANS. And like the Vietnamese did against the Americans, let's dig tunnels under PLANS, capture their weapons, and shoot back at them with their own guns. The Germans also captured their best guns from the Russians.
-- snip --

-- snip --
We have to make pre-emptive strikes in non-English speaking countries before the Steiner-hating atheists and evangelicals join forces translate Dan Dugan's stuff to fuel a massive public campaign to crush WE and AP. We need to get to Dugan before they do. It's only a question of time when they catch on. The Norwegian Human- Ethical Foundation (Humanetisk Forbund) has been after Steiner and WE for decades, warning parents against sending their kids to Walddorf schools because of the alleged New Age religious foundation.
-- snip --

[Comment]
Gary has just put his foot in it without realizing it. DD and his cohorts at PLANS have had the habit of playing CIA and KGB and what have you by planting moles or sleepers in private, closed anthro-groups like the Ark. And then they gave themselves away by publishing stolen text messages on their own public list. And to top it all off, they denied their espionage when confronted by the webmasters of such private groups. To Dan Dugan, there is no such thing as private mail.

With this in mind, I wrote some posts to the Ark suggesting that we play by some of the same rules. And this is what Gary apparently thinks is placing Yours Truly in a bad light, not realizing that he is exposing the PLANS cult in this way. It looks like we're dealing with stupid thieves and cloak-and-dagger players here. They say anthroposophists never smile and have no sense of humor, but the quotes from my Ark posts testify to the opposite.

Can't you do better than that, morons?

[Gary]
Browse through hundreds of Tarjei's posts to waldorf-critics before he was finally booted off.

[Comment]
As demonstrated in the other post - Gary is dead wrong about this.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/598

[Gary]
Search results for "Tarjei" on www.waldorfcritics.org...

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=tarjei&sp-a=sp10017666

[Comment]
A highly recommended search. I think I've come out of discussions with the PLANS creeps exceptionally well - so well, in fact, that I began to format and post the threads I participated in on my own website:

http://www.uncletaz.com/wc/wcthreads/

Here you'll find most of the 1999 discussions I was in. I haven't found the time to collect, format, and post the 2001 threads yet.

[Gary]
You should choose your heroes of Anthroposophy a little more carefully, Michael.

[Comment]
Perhaps Gary should choose his cults a little more carefully. PLANS stinks, and the members are not very bright, but perhaps that's why Gary feels at home there. PS is clever, but he is a pathological liar with the ability to fool people into believing that he is a historian..The others, especially DD the high priest, hail him as their guru.

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

...................................................................................................................................

From: Steinerhead
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:46 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] PLANS cloak-and-dagger

In a message dated 12/15/03 8:02:46 AM, anthrouncle writes:

In a recent post - "Thank you Jakob" - I said that the question of which organization is most cultlike here and which is most morally bankrupt are questions for others to answer. In the same post, I provided a link to a WC post by Gary about me - written at a time when I was not monitoring or subscribing to that list.

Upon rereading it, I see that it is so full of venom and "dirty fighting" that it may be expedient to comment the details. And in the small world we're living in, Gary is addressing you here, Mike. (No wonder you got him fired up with the quote about their creepy tea party and their Peters with wet gunpowder!)

Yes, it is a small world isn't it? I'm not particularly proud of my participation in those days. That was almost two years ago. To be honest, I think that was only the second or third post to an e-mail group that I had ever made in my entire life. When we started researching Waldorf in the preceding fall of that year, I had come across the plans site and was not to surprised, because two of the schools that we visited actually handed us some literature about it. A few months later I started reading deeper into it, and began to realize the propaganda spin and witch-hunt style that seemed to accompany some of the genuine concern about religious underpinnings, and actual bad experiences. The more I read, the more angry I became, till I finally came bursting through their doors with my guns a blazen. Unfortunately I couldn't notice at that precise moment that I had forgotten to tighten my belt, and my pants had fallen down. :(

Re: Thank you Joel, From a lurker
Gary Bonhiver
Feb 11, 2002 20:12 PST

Thank you Michael!

on 2/11/02 8:22 PM, Michael Helsher wrote:

[snip]
I also agree with uncle Taz when he says this is a "creepy, grumpy, misanthropic tea party". I found his website to be a good counter effort:
http://home.no.net/tastraum/index.html .
[snip]
In my view "The decisive question is not how many Peters you have," saith Uncle Taz, " but whether or not their gunpowder is dry." As far as we can see, Staudenmaier and Zegers are all wet, and so is their gunpowder. Read, and judge for yourselves". I don't consider myself an anthroposophist per say, but I obviously have strong sympathies for it, and Waldorf education as well.

Wow! I must not have been eating well back then!

[Gary]
You've selected QUITE the role model for representing your Anthroposophical and Waldorf sympathies.

[Comment]
Yes, you've got Gary all fired up here, Mike. He's so furious he's almost out of control, frothing at the mouth as it were. And then he goes for my jugular in my absence:

[Gary]
Tarjei is well known to us. Do YOU know the same Tarjei that we know?

Tarjei, the proud father if a teenage son who posted a graphic bloody, gory web page last year and boasted about it on waldorf-critics, providing the link for all the world to see? (he's since taken it down)

[Comment]
My son is a teenager today at 13, but back then, he was only 11, so Gary was mistaken here. And this demonstrates how unscrupulous and insidious and brutal these PLANS people can be: My son, who attends Waldorf school in another city on the west coast of Norway where he lives with his mother, who is also an anthroposophist as well as a Waldorf teacher, had been staying with me for some weeks immediately before I subscribed to the WC for the second time. He spends most of his time playing computer games while he's here, but i asked him if he wanted to design a webpage instead for a change. And he did, collecting some strange graphics from spooky playsites of heads with dripping blood. I was a fool to allow PLANS to get hold of that page, but I had no premoniton of how utterly hysterically crazy they could become. They jumped not only all over me, but all over my 11 year old like rabid vultures, and they wouldn't leave him alone. He needed professional help, he was sick sick sick, he would become a serial killer if noone interfered. His terrible terrible webpage was to be used as an example of what Waldorf education was doing to children; it should be a warning to prospective Waldorf parents. This went on and on and on throughout the summer of 2001. And it's still there, in the WC archives, because the PLANS people have no moral scruples what the protection of children is concerned. My son is growing up fast, 14 in a month, and when he's 18, I may persuade him to sue PLANS for publishing such garbage about a minor who is not even participating in the discussion.

[Gary]
Tarjei, the developer of his own current "Skulls" page which was formerly
named "Death Page"?

[Comment]
I thought Gary was referring to my Dali picture at http://www.uncletaz.com/classgallery/Dali/atmosph.html but he may be thinking about "Symbol of the Skull" http://www.uncletaz.com/skullpage.html that they've linked up to from the PLANS site. The PLANS people hold the notion that my webpages will prove to outsiders how wacky and dangerous anthroposophists are. So be it.

[Gary]
Tarjei, the author of the following posts?

-- snip --
What we need is a mole on Dan's Critics Only list. A loyal apop who has never posted to the WC list and who can impersonate a Steiner-hater. The mission is to infiltrate the critics' inner off-list circle and gather intelligence. The agent must take a loyalty oath to the Goethanum, to Anthroposophia, and to Michael, and be sworn in to defend AP with occult weapons against all enemies domestic and foreign. Any volunteers?
-- snip --

-- snip --
In addition, we need more reports like this - lots more. We need a Tet Offensive against PLANS. And like the Vietnamese did against the Americans, let's dig tunnels under PLANS, capture their weapons, and shoot back at them with their own guns. The Germans also captured their best guns from the Russians.
-- snip --

-- snip --
We have to make pre-emptive strikes in non-English speaking countries before the Steiner-hating atheists and evangelicals join forces translate Dan Dugan's stuff to fuel a massive public campaign to crush WE and AP. We need to get to Dugan before they do. It's only a question of time when they catch on. The Norwegian Human- Ethical Foundation (Humanetisk Forbund) has been after Steiner and WE for decades, warning parents against sending their kids to Walddorf schools because of the alleged New Age religious foundation.
-- snip --

[Comment]
Gary has just put his foot in it without realizing it. DD and his cohorts at PLANS have had the habit of playing CIA and KGB and what have you by planting moles or sleepers in private, closed anthro-groups like the Ark. And then they gave themselves away by publishing stolen text messages on their own public list. And to top it all off, they denied their espionage when confronted by the webmasters of such private groups. To Dan Dugan, there is no such thing as private mail.

With this in mind, I wrote some posts to the Ark suggesting that we play by some of the same rules. And this is what Gary apparently thinks is placing Yours Truly in a bad light, not realizing that he is exposing the PLANS cult in this way. It looks like we're dealing with stupid thieves and cloak-and-dagger players here. They say anthroposophists never smile and have no sense of humor, but the quotes from my Ark posts testify to the opposite.

Can't you do better than that, morons?

That's a classic Tarjei! I didn't know that those posts were stolen from a private list. You see, my intuition was right. This kind of stuff goes way beyond the justifiably bad Waldorf experiences that some people have had.

[Gary]
Browse through hundreds of Tarjei's posts to waldorf-critics before he was finally booted off.

[Comment]
As demonstrated in the other post - Gary is dead wrong about this.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/598

[Gary]
Search results for "Tarjei" on www.waldorfcritics.org...

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=tarjei&sp-a=sp10017666

[Comment]
A highly recommended search. I think I've come out of discussions with the PLANS creeps exceptionally well - so well, in fact, that I began to format and post the threads I participated in on my own website:

http://www.uncletaz.com/wc/wcthreads/

Here you'll find most of the 1999 discussions I was in. I haven't found the time to collect, format, and post the 2001 threads yet.

[Gary]
You should choose your heroes of Anthroposophy a little more carefully, Michael.

[Comment]
Perhaps Gary should choose his cults a little more carefully. PLANS stinks, and the members are not very bright, but perhaps that's why Gary feels at home there. PS is clever, but he is a pathological liar with the ability to fool people into believing that he is a historian..The others, especially DD the high priest, hail him as their guru.

Woah! your shootin to kill brother. I like it!

I also like to wallow in my own cleverness every now and then. Perhaps this is why I have a weird fascination with the Plans cult. I can't remember the story, but there is a great Sufi tale called something like "the clever fish." The story reminds me of Peter S's diatribes. All those intellectual twists and turns, cat and mouse, aloof Socratic method, and the classic: "I'm not sure what you mean by that."

But I can only stand to be in that kind of mental space for a little while. If I stay to long, then my heart starts to turn black.

Truth and Reminiscence

Mike

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