The Rose

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

I remember my Foundation Year Studies in Spring Valley, NY with Rene Querido (1976-77). I remember the group working so hard through the first half of the book, struggling with naive realism, etc.. I remember reaching that particular sentence in the second half of the book. Without the hard, hard work of the first half, that sentence may seem very trite and superficial. But after the work, it was such a joy that everyone totally exulted. There may even have been some dancing around the room! It wasn't a platitude - it was an experience!

That is an example of why it means so much to do the work. There is so much joy to be achieved!

Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Steinerhead
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

In a message dated 12/15/03 12:36:12 AM, golden3000997 writes:

I remember my Foundation Year Studies in Spring Valley, NY with Rene Querido (1976-77). I remember the group working so hard through the first half of the book, struggling with naive realism, etc.. I remember reaching that particular sentence in the second half of the book. Without the hard, hard work of the first half, that sentence may seem very trite and superficial. But after the work, it was such a joy that everyone totally exulted. There may even have been some dancing around the room! It wasn't a platitude - it was an experience!

That is an example of why it means so much to do the work. There is so much joy to be achieved!

Christine

Dear Christine:

Namaste'

...................................................................................................................................

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

At 01:34 15.12.2003, Christine wrote:

I remember my Foundation Year Studies in Spring Valley, NY with Rene Querido (1976-77).

Small world. Rene Querido, the fast British-speaking Dutchman who commands five or six languages, has written a bunch of anthro-books and intros and translated and was the dean of Rudolf Steiner College in California for a number of years, right? Well, I listened to him once in Houston back in 1987 at a gathering of sorts with him and his wife, plus a local anthro-girl who played classical violin quite beautifully. He was talking about the Parceval story, and there was so much to swallow it made my head spin and I didn't quite get it. But at one point he was getting at the roots of our present-day problem with the Arabs in connection with that story, and he asked: "Aren't we having problems with the Arabs these days?" The affirmation was spontaneous and unanimous. And this was in 1987, the year before the Lockerbie blowup. I had a premonition of sorts - which is very rare for me to have - when travelling on a Pan Am from Miami to London only a few days before this catastrophe. I'd never been worried about safety on a flight before. Enough of that; this was the moment we entered the age of Arab terror: It began with Lockerbie, which coincided with the death of my innocent father. An age of innocence of sorts was over and the age of terror had begun that day in December 1988, heralding the arrival of Sorat ten years later, in 1998.

But back to Rene Querido in Houston that day in 1987. It was so silly, this thing his wife came up with. This was a normal crowd, a mixture of local anthroposophists that I happened to belong to (I was an AS member back then) plus a bunch of people who had come to learn something about Steiner and Waldorf and so on without necessarily having much of a clue. And then Rene's wife stands up and she passes out these sheets of paper with some words from Goethe's fairy tale about the green snake and the lily, and we, people of all ages and from all walks of life, are supposed to be reading and singing this stuff like some drama school exercise in articulation and voice or something - standing up and waving our arms or something. And I don't forget that we had to roll those r's. Imagine Texans rolling their r's. Could Bush do it?

I remember the group working so hard through the first half of the book, struggling with naive realism, etc.. I remember reaching that particular sentence in the second half of the book. Without the hard, hard work of the first half, that sentence may seem very trite and superficial. But after the work, it was such a joy that everyone totally exulted. There may even have been some dancing around the room! It wasn't a platitude - it was an experience!

Deja vous again, same place same year. I was participating in a study group in Houston, and we were going through the PoF. It was a lot of fun. At one point someone asked me what I was doing, and I burst out laughing I couldn't get a word out. Finally it came between hysterical guffaws: "I'm THINKING!"

I'm glad I went through that book in a group while at the same time going through related works like "Truth and Knowledge" (an intro to the PoF) and his earlier work about Goethe's scientific worldview. Steiner said at one point that there are two basic approaches to Anthroposophy: One is through "Theosophy," and the other is through PoF. I had originally gone the first path. It feels nice to do them both. And you're right: The second path, working through the PoF, that's hard work, but it's also very rewarding. It will make an incurable bona fide anarchist out of you. It's the most seditious book ever written. What blows me away is not that Steiner said it would survive all his other works put together. No, what really knocks me out is that this is what Christ is telling us today; this is the New Gospel!

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:25 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

The world is indeed, small. By the way, though, Rene is originally from Belgium. He and his wife Merlyn were my mentors and teachers in Spring Valley when the school was called the "Threefold Center for Adult Education." I went through my Foundation Year during my 21st year and then he was asked to move to Fair Oaks, CA to take over the teacher training program. He called me and said "You better sit down, Merlyn and I are moving to California." Without a blink, I said "We're coming, too." meaning myself and my husband. Well, we did - we put some of our stuff on the moving van with the Querido's furniture and the rest in a Dodge van that we drove to California in with our two cats, sleeping on the boxes in the back!

There were seven trainees in Fair Oaks that year - all women! The teacher training school was called the "Sacramento Center for Anthroposophical Studies."

The trainees were able, being so few, to intern in the Sacramento Waldorf School from December through June - an experience that all trainees are not necessarily able to have.

I was so lucky to have had that time with them. We lost touch after I moved to Seattle in 1981/82 and I feel like I have never really fulfilled so much of what they had hoped for me. But it's not over yet!! : )

As to Houston - my sister and her family moved to Kingwood a few years back and I have been out there several times, even thought of moving there, but it hasn't been real so far.

How destiny weaves - such subtle patterns. So many times I have fought and kicked against movements that seemed against what I wanted and yet (the gift of advancing years) one looks back and sees the pattern and how something other than one's limited everyday conciousness must be at work to make it happen at all!

Yeah, when that thinking kicks in - WOW! There was another speaker in Spring Valley, a college professor at Ramapo College in NJ who lectured on Etheric Thinking and he could really take you on a cosmic joy-ride if you allowed your mind to move - I mean really move!!

I was advised by my other wonderful mentor, Alan Howard, while I was a very messed up teenager to read a little of RS every night (no matter what condition I was in) even if it was a paragraph and I didn't "get" it. Just keep doing it. Of all of the things I have "ought" to do in my life, that was the only one I did. It took about two or three years to be able to read RS. It is like using a muscle one has never used before. It is not comfortable and doesn't work well at first. But going little by little, it gets better. Then, someday one discovers that one can really think - I mean Etheric Thinking that moves and breathes, not static abstract thinking! What a trip! : )

So Tarjei, greetings along the way. I wonder why our paths did not meet. Perhaps there is a crossing point still to come.

: ) Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:46 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

On Sun, 2003-12-14 at 21:25, golden3000997 wrote:

The world is indeed, small. By the way, though, Rene is originally from Belgium. He and his wife Merlyn were my mentors and teachers in Spring Valley when the school was called the "Threefold Center for Adult Education." I went through my Foundation Year during my 21st year and then he was asked to move to Fair Oaks, CA to take over the teacher training program. He called me and said "You better sit down, Merlyn and I are moving to California." Without a blink, I said "We're coming, too." meaning myself and my husband. Well, we did - we put some of our stuff on the moving van with the Querido's furniture and the rest in a Dodge van that we drove to California in with our two cats, sleeping on the boxes in the back!

Dear Christine,

I am glad you remember those years with fondness. For others those years where tragic, and an interference with Destiny, for in order for Rudolf Steiner College to be born out of the Adult Education side of things, another, more important and profound impulse, connected with the American Soul, was killed.

Carl Stegmann, who proposed the Adult Education side, also proposed the creation of a second institution, for "the study of the social question in America". The ambitions of a few, to found a teacher training center, basically "ate" the social question center in the process of manifesting their self centered vision. Sort of a Cain and Abel story.

I could say a lot more, but people generally aren't interested in looking at the Dark Side of the Anthroposophical Movement, and instead always want to see things as filled with light and holiness. It is, of course, this failure to penetrate the shadow elements through group self reflection, that has killed the Movement and the Society.

sad regards,
joel

...................................................................................................................................

From: Steinerhead
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

In a message dated 12/15/03 3:01:00 AM , anthrouncle writes:

The second path, working through the PoF, that's hard work, but it's also very rewarding. It will make an incurable bona fide anarchist out of you. It's the most seditious book ever written.

I just might drink to that! (even though I haven't had a drink now for 14 years (filled my quota for this lifetime;^)).

What blows me away is not that Steiner said it would survive all his other works put together. No, what really knocks me out is that this is what Christ is telling us today; this is the New Gospel!

Last year, while wrestling with the POF, I realized just that. It happened while I was driving, and I became so overwhelmed that I had to pull over. I was awed and struck dumb at the same time. For many years I had pondered the idea of having "knowledge of God's will, and the power to carry it out." I was awed by my newfound "knowledge," but I was struck dumb by the idea of having "the power to carry it out." For the first time in my life I felt really_ small_ without hating myself. The amount of responsibility in what "Christ is telling us today" is huge, and to be quite honest, it scared me at first. I would think to myself "how am I going to do this? It's Glorious and HUGE, I don't feel worthy."

Soon there after came a bunch of bizarre synchronistic events, and some of the most difficult real life trials I've ever had to face. Good practice, right on time.

Incidentally, a friend of mine told me once that the POF is in a way, a reworking of "the Gospel of Saint John." Anybody know anything about that?

Truth and Love

Mike

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

Hello Mike,

I don't remember any particular discussion with the direct assertion that PoF was a re-working of the Gospel of St. John, but I do remember us talking about the Gospel of St. John , the Logos and the Knights Templars. Much of which is already being discussed among us.

This feeling of being small. Well, I am currently obsessing on the Lord of the Rings, in great anticipation of the Return of the King. And there is a direct line by Galadriel (elf queen)

Even the smallest person could change the course of the future. - Galadriel

That's what makes Tolkien's trilogy and so many Fairy Tales like The Golden Goose, etc. so wonderful - it is the least likely, the "Dummling", the youngest brother, the Aschenputtel, who has the forces necessary to turn the tide, to save the day. This is the magic that lies in each one of us. It may lead us to the Mountain of Doom, but if we choose to go, we have the potential to do more than anyone could have imagined, especially ourselves.

Everyone here is, I am sure, aware that JRR Tolkien was part of a circle of professors which included CS Lewis and Owen Barfield and that Barfield was a direct student of Anthroposophy. I am not sure if there is any documentation that RS and Anthroposophy directly influenced Tolkien & Lewis through Barfield, but there was so much "in the air" during that time that seemed to have inspired that group.

I hesitated to see the films, actually because the books have been such a powerful part of my life, but they have done a very good job. I'm totally in love with Faramir and I have sneaked a peak at spoilers on line and he's really heavily featured in Return of the King. Huzzah!!! : )

I believe that each one of us is called upon to be both a King/ Queen and a Ring Bearer. It is a quest of conciousness and courage. And how vital is the Fellowship!!! Perhaps we should be re-examining all of this bickering within the movement and better prepare our defenses against the real foe. No one should be taking this time lightly. We will need each other more than we know. Does anyone know where the Elves are??

: ) Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:51 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

On Sun, 2003-12-14 at 22:04, golden3000997 wrote:

Everyone here is, I am sure, aware that JRR Tolkien was part of a circle of professors which included CS Lewis and Owen Barfield and that Barfield was a direct student of Anthroposophy. I am not sure if there is any documentation that RS and Anthroposophy directly influenced Tolkien & Lewis through Barfield, but there was so much "in the air" during that time that seemed to have inspired that group.

Dear Christine,

The Circle was called the Inklings, and meet frequently (sometimes weekly) at Oxford rooms during the 20's and early 30's. It included, besides the above, Charles Williams, who wrote some very interesting and quite "British" occult novels for adults. There is serious scholarship about these meetings, and one book which I have read is called "The Inklings".

warm regards,
joel

...................................................................................................................................

From: Steinerhead
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:09 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

In a message dated 12/15/03 5:05:42 AM , golden3000997 writes:

This feeling of being small. Well, I am currently obsessing on the Lord of the Rings, in great anticipation of the Return of the King. And there is a direct line by Galadriel (elf queen)

Even the smallest person could change the course of the future. - Galadriel

Hi Christine:

I'm a total Tolkien head also. I just watched the newly released version of "The Two Towers" last week. It was awesome; there were 45 extra minuets that really made it so much better. Especially since last year I had read the book right before seeing the movie (bad move). I was like "hey! wait a minuet... that's not right."

Faramir? Naa, not my type -- sorry.

But, oh baby - Liv Tyler ! :^P

I like Gandalf at the bridge of Kazad-dum. It's a classic "Guardian of the threshold" experience, especially his "falling into shadow" battling the demon, and emerging more powerful and purified as "Gandalf the White."

Thanks Christine for yet another wonderful post

Truth and Love

Mike

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:04 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

Hi Mike,

I love Liv Tyler, too, though not necessarily in the same way. : )

I started reading "Return of the King" again last week, but now I've stopped and am going back to "The Fellowship of the Ring". I've gone through them all many times, but it has been a while and I want to "freshen up".

I don't remember Faramir as being such an outstanding character in the books and I think that, from what I have read in interviews online, Peter Jackson has quite conciously expanded his character. And it is a very interesting and complex one.

While Aragorn/ Strider is conflicted, it is actually a rather simple dilemma. To take up his birthright or not. The only fear he has is that he will fail as his ancestor did and he would rather not take it on than take the chance of failing. But what his road and role is was always defined. Faramir (at least in these films) has many more problems and complexes. He was not "destined" by birth to take the Stewardship of Gondor, so he hadn't prepared himself for it. And the world-conflict that he finds himself in is against his nature. Perhaps he is the archetype of the Artist - who would like to stay by himself and work at revealing Truth through Beauty. But in the course of world events (Middle Earth or Twenty-First Century) no one can be spared. And the forces of the Artist are needed as much or even more than the forces of the Warrior - or rather the forces of the Artist must become the forces of the Warrior!

I found online some articles about this artist's painting that was banned from an exhibit recently:

http://www.chuckbowden.com

http://www.chuckbowden.com/images/freedom.jpg

I will have to look around to find the article, but if you search with Chuck Bowden, you will easily find them. Not what I would call a "great" work of art, but certainly a courageous one. Consider how artists with an independent point of view have been banned in all totalitarian societies. In our totalitarian society, the powers have learned that trying to ban the art and artists tends to backfire and a much more effective tactic is to co-opt the artist and the work! Lures of wealth and fame ensure that those with talent devote their energies to what is socially acceptable. Those with lesser talent tend to be discouraged easily from the race! And the social eye is kept focused on the "successful" ones quite effectively.

Back to "RotK" - Jackson's version - in Faramir we see the soul of the Artist forced to take on the task of the Warrior. Love and Duty (and the human conflict between them) propel him. This is another archetype within us all. Shall we use whatever talents lie within us in the service of the Good, or not?

I can't wait!

In Fellowship!
Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Steinerhead
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

Hi Christine:

I loved your take on Faramir. I was a little disappointed with his portrayal in the original version of the second movie. I couldn't remember much of his character from the book either. But the new extended version of the movie brings out allot of important details. The most important, I think, is his relationship with his father and Boramir. The latter being the prize, with Faramir getting the shit end of the stick, when it comes to his fathers approval. So here we have a basic theme from which many Artists aspire to redemption; and as fate would have it, the opportunity for just such an experience is offered, but not without much difficulty.

And yeah! The union of the artist and the worrier. Reminds me of an inspirational book that I read many years ago: "The way of the peaceful Warrior".

Truth and Love and the Rose

Mike

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:11 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

Hello Joel,

Well, I know perfectly well about the dark side of this movement. I have lived through quite a lot of it - survived, rather! It's too bad about Sacramento. I really don't see why it couldn't have been a combination of the two impulses - a truly Americanized teacher training center with a committment to bring more conciousness to American teachers and American schools!! I would have loved it. When I was there, I remember some murmerings, but not a lot said out in the open. My guess is that it was probably some ego-conflict thing.

Have you ever noticed, or had the experience of, a great deal of sheer lack of hospitality in the movement, especially in the school communities? I have had several experiences where someone has come to visit a school where I was teaching and (unless they were a recognizable "bigwig" in the movement) they were totally ignored by the community? On many occasions, I was the only one who asked who they were, where they came from and invited them over for dinner!

I was in Chicago around Thanksgiving in 1995. I had recently met some friends, one with a beautiful daughter of 9 or 10. The Chicago Waldorf School was having their Advent Faire (bazaar/ thing) and I was really excited to take my new friends there, thinking it was potentially a mind and heart connection for her. The atmosphere was absolutely icy!!! No one, as we moved through the fair, asked us who we were (you would think people in a small community could tell when there were new people about). And when we went into the classrooms to see some of the student's work, I mentioned that I was a former Waldorf teacher. NO ONE was at all interested in that fact or who I was or where I had been. In fact, they looked at me oddly (paranoid, you say?). Obviously, my friends were not at all impressed. I was really embarassed for the movement, like I have been on many other occasions.

One more point. I remember some discussion in the college or school or both about the potential for the charter school movement. Of course, being young and enthusiastic, I don't think that my fellow (?) students or I thought it was a bad plan. We naturally wanted to see the schools grow and thrive. But I don't think I remember anyone saying, "Now wait a minute, it might not be such a terrific idea." I think now that it is a really lousy idea that has enormously bad potential for the movement with or without PLANS and that it is SO totally against Steiner's paradigm!!!

I think that we really haven't come to terms with the spiritual aspect of money!!! We are still acting as beggars instead of producers!! Big subject, pet peeve.

As I said recently, we need to stop bickering. I feel like we are a bunch of "cavemen" standing around arguing about who gets to use the club next and don't notice the big T-Rex looming over us!!

: I Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: golden3000997
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:16 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

OOOOOOHHHH!!!

I'm going tomorrow!!!!!! I bought my ticket via phone in case it sells out. If I lived up north, I'd go in Renn garb, but here in the Third World, I don't think it's going to be that kind of a crowd.

Oh how I wish you were all coming with me!!

Definitely going to bring a whole box of tissues!!!

: ) Christine

...................................................................................................................................

From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:22 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] The Rose

Barfield and Lewis engaged in a years-long exchange of letters that they playfully called "the great war" over the nature of consciousness, knowledge and the divine. Barfield argued the anthroposophical view, even citing Steiner, while Lewis consistently and very effectively disagreed. There is an excellent book on the subject called "C. S. Lewis' 'Great War' With Owen Barfield" by Lionel Adey. You can get it from amazon.com at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0954264304/

Daniel Hindes

Everyone here is, I am sure, aware that JRR Tolkien was part of a circle of professors which included CS Lewis and Owen Barfield and that Barfield was a direct student of Anthroposophy. I am not sure if there is any documentation that RS and Anthroposophy directly influenced Tolkien & Lewis through Barfield, but there was so much "in the air" during that time that seemed to have inspired that group.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Click to subscribe to anthroposophy_tomorrow
 

December 2003/January 2004

The Uncle Taz "Anthroposophy Tomorrow" Files

Anthroposophy & Anarchism

Anthroposophy & Scientology

Anthroposophical Morsels

Anthroposophy, Critics, and Controversy

Search this site powered by FreeFind