WC Quote of the Day 1

 

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:57 pm
Subject: WC Quote of the Day

Maybe we should start a tradition here like "WC Quote of the Day." I picked up a couple of pearls by DD from his message to Jacob:

About shit and scholarship:

I don't owe you shit, Jacob. This is a discussion list, not a scholarly journal. Peter Staudenmaier is a scholar with the patience of a saint. I'm neither scholar nor saint."

- Dan Dugan

About hostility:

I think a little hostility is quite in order when busting a system of institutionalized racism.

- Dan Dugan

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Steinerhead
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] WC Quote of the Day

In a message dated 12/15/03 6:59:06 AM, anthrouncle writes:

Maybe we should start a tradition here like "WC Quote of the Day." I picked up a couple of pearls by DD from his message to Jacob:

That I think is a great idea. I also think that DD's massage to Jakob tells it all, as to the general attitude of most of the critics -- A neurotically absolute cynicism that probably stems from a chemical imbalance in the brain. Or maybe it's a psychological problem: they could be using Steiner and Waldorf as a vent for there pent up frustrations about there own neglected childhood (justifiable bad experiences aside of course).

In the latter case I would recommend some primal scream therapy. I did some myself and I can say that I felt much better. For the chemical imbalance I would recommend a diet that promotes the production of seritonin in the brain. This I have also done and again, I feel much better.

Therapy and healthy diet

Mike

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From: dottie zold
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: WC Quote of the Day

Michael wrote:
For the chemical imbalance I would recommend a diet that promotes the production of seritonin in the brain. This I have also done and again, I feel much better.

Hey Michael,

Can you reccommend a good book on a diet that promotes this seritonin? I have quite a few young people with this chemical inbalance and it is leading to nowhere fast. I have not made concrete time to search this out and my young people battling drug use could use a little help with a diet in this regards.

Thanks,
Dottie

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From: Steinerhead
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: WC Quote of the Day

In a message dated 12/15/03 8:27:01 PM, dottie_z writes:

Hey Michael,

Can you reccommend a good book on a diet that promotes this seritonin? I have quite a few young people with this chemical inbalance and it is leading to nowhere fast. I have not made concrete time to search this out and my young people battling drug use could use a little help with a diet in this regards.

Thanks,
Dottie

Hi Dottie:

You should check out this web-site:

http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/depression/treatment/alternative/food_moods.asp

These ideas worked wonders for me and many of my friends. Amino acid therapy has helped many an addicted person as well.

Good Luck

Mike

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:35 am
Subject: WC Extra!

This is good. DD has lost it. Not only does he misspell my name in this fresh post of his, but he makes me webmaster for Sune's website in Sweden! He repeats his error repeatedly throughout his message!

I tell you, these guys can't even tie their own shoes!

And heeeeeeeere's the QUOTE:

[Percedol]
The one to be irritated here seems to be DD.

[DD]
You got that right!

-Dan Dugan

Percedol, if you're reading this, don't waste your time in that dump. Come over here, it's a lot more fun.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:49 am
Subject: From our WC Notebook

WC Quotes of the Day:

About Steiner, blondes, and the Nazis:

"Steiner stood up on a stage in 1922 and proclaimed that intelligence was linked with blond hair and blue eyes. Ipso facto he helped build the foundation for the Holocaust."

- Dan Dugan

About Tarjei, Peter Staudenmaier, and libel:

"Targei Straume's page containing libelous statements about Peter, he's lucky Peter's not litigous".

- Dan Dugan

(DD has corrected himself by spelling my name right and attributing the webpage in question to Sune. But that's not the point. The fun part is about Peter S. and libel.)

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:03 am
Subject: WC Quote of the Day

Percedol:
Did your friends involved in spiritual practice try to meditate some contents of A.?

Walden:
I should ask my friends to meditate on racist quotes? You think I'm nuts?

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:00 am
Subject: WC Quote of the Day

About Steiner's 'sharp rejection of esoteric principles':

Steiner's 1894 book The Philosophy of Freedom is integrally related to the following six years of his life and teachings. Steiner remained a rationalist and an individualist until his conversion to Theosophy in 1901. From that point on, however, everything he taught was based squarely on the esoteric principles that he had sharply rejected in the 1890's.

- Peter Staudenmaier, 11.09.03 - http://makeashorterlink.com/?I34C54CD6

Cheers,

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:14 am
Subject: WC Quote of the Day

Date: May 21, 2001

Thread: "RE: Norwegians and Nazis and blood, oh my"

[Tarjei]
Real historians and real researchers don't write polemical and rhetorical propaganda like that.

[Peter Staudenmaier]
You and "Maniac" ought to bridge your differences and write a new intro to historical methodology; I guarantee you it would be quite a departure from the existing literature. But I have to admit that you've got a point here, for once. My articles on anthroposophy are indeed polemical.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:41 am
Subject: WC Quote of the Day

We can judge Steiner's reports of his experiences as being fantasies, delusions, or fabrications. He's a good example of why you shouldn't do mind-emptying meditation!"

- Dan Dugan, Dec 27, 2003

[Tarjei comments: PLANS is a cult of ghostbusters dedicated to the pursuit of empty shadows.]

Tarjei Straume
http://www.uncletaz.com/anthrocritics.html

"The worst readers are those who proceed like plundering soldiers: they pick up a few things they use, soil and confuse the rest, and blaspheme the whole." - Friedrich Nietzsche, Mixed Opinions and Maxims

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: WC Quote of the Day

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Tarjei Straume wrote:

We can judge Steiner's reports of his experiences as being fantasies, delusions, or fabrications. He's a good example of why you shouldn't do mind-emptying meditation!

Bradford comments;

Hmmm Sauron speaks. It is time to understand the insanity of Saul who became Paul. Paul's experiece at Damascus is psychotic clinically termed schizophrenic. We have sent in our best arm chair quarterbacks of Freudian psychology to rip Paul off his pedastal all in the name of hypocrisy. We call this guy who thought he was Saul, sheriff of Hebrew tradition and the hanging judge, the stoning judge, converted to a new name, a name change, called Paul. It was obviously because Paul could get more money with his revised and negotiated contract with the Dead Guy Jesus than he could from the Jews. Thus started a whole world of people who suddenly, on some whim change their name from Jane to Sun Beam.

A statement Nietzsche had said, a statement that shook Steiner, that Ahriman dictated to Nietzsche, was that Jesus was Insane. Well you can imagine how this hit Steiner. He saw the Spin and future name game and open scissoring, back stabbing and god awful Ethnic cleansing nightmares that would come down the pike, all in the name of branding a person with insanity.

We should praise the foresight of Christ, who saw that the biggest attack dogs that would be thrown at humanity in the future, after Paul, would be to declare that anyone with in an inner world or sees into the Spiritual World is insane. Paul was Christ's chess move on the board to checkmate Ahriman. Paul was astonished at the role he had to bear. Look into this, wise Karmic move from a Being who had just been tortured and crucified, to have the balls to see ahead into the future where Ahrimanic Critics would call Paul Schizophrenic and Jesus insane. This would be the critical frontier of the entire Michael School. The Michael School better be logical, medical, and provide such explanations like how the ATomic Table is a relation of musical tones arising out of the Devachan. That Electricity is decayed Light. That the Plant stands upside down with its roots as the thinking of the Seasons of the Earth. Oh yes, the challenge for Paul was to make Ahriman's attacks mute. Cut Ahriman off at the pass.

When a child, their children, our children come to parents and say, as Louis MacNeice has said, 'I Am Not Yet Born, Preserve me"..we see the fangs of the Intellectual Wolf dismissing Steiner/Paul as insane, delusional and obviously in need of medication. There by, all Steiner's insights, are swept away in one Nietzschean swat. Thereby the parents who hear this, run to Ridlin and medication to numb the actual spiritual world where from these little accumulated materialistic haphazard combination of cells, called children,they can be safeguarded in the world of the sane according to the Ring Wing and WC version of sanity. This is nor personal this is global Ahrimanic spin.

The same Worm Tongue is behind these observations and the same stamp of soul that has painted Paul into a corner. It is interesting to see how the WC has invited Ahriman to be the guest intellectual speaker to attempt to thwart what it fears most. That there is a Spiritual world, only humans are safer in not knowing this. There are Gods, not just little Fundie, Dashboard Jesus delusions. It is better not to know that Ahriman walks through the thought world. It is better to think that the clever knives thrown at the face of Saints condemns them all to some psycho ward in the Swiss Alps.

For us it is better to praise the Ahrimanic efficiency mustered in the world today and his inspiration as he unconsciously works his usual magic in cunning people. Cunning, is that they attempt to defy the Gods themselves. Steiner and many others are the last defense adults and children have against the assault teams of Ahriman. Because Steiner gave us the tools and exact description of Ahrimanic Symptomology because he knew that they would be gunning and coming after all who have experienced the Spiritual World or remember.

It is safer to medicate our children, cut off the opportunity of chronic depression, manic depression that arises without a Spiritual World View, so that Death, is Death, and family values are family values. I am surprised that so many of you all go in to tangle, and perhaps to see for yourself, exactly what inspiration arises in the souls of those, determined to call Ahriman King and Paul insane. It surprises me that Ahrimanic inspiration of that sort is not seen for what it is. We do this because we respect the echo of cunning in the arguments and envy we continue to learn exactly what this or other types of symptomolgy means.

For it follows as Night follows Day that if Steiner is nuts, delusional, all of Pauline Christianity is delusional. It follows that Christ was a hallucination. It requires a kind of maturity, that Steiner showed as he went into the sitting room with the nesting vipers and eggs of Ahriman, in Nietzsche brain. One has to have a vast solid foundation of experience and soul to see the humor in calling Christ or Jesus, insane. Calling Paul a Schizo and STeiner, a much easier target, just a local nut. It is bright sense of humor that is an easy argument because of the obvious Ahrmanic taint it was said with.

What we need is to not walk around in naive stupidity in regards to the Ahrimanic Archai speaking out of the WC and the Michael Time Period we live in. It is Trench combat, Tarjei does so well and is so clear in sifting the grains of truth, I applaud you and many on this list for their balanced and clear thinking. But let us not be afraid to take the Michael School into the meaning of psychiatry and the twisted halls of Worm Tongue that passes as Rumor Mill and Ahrimanic Spin. Get to know, without illusion, Ahrimanic Spin. This is not the human soul speaking but the overshadowing of Ahriman in the Intellectual and sentient soul. Anti-Global brotherhood is the continued infection into the Consciousness Soul and anti- cosmopolitanism serves Ahriman well.

When Steiner dealt with Schizophrenia he dealt with the Sphinx and Oedipus in the most profound way. Steiner knew he would and we would be attacked with the same weapons of Ahriman and believe me they are the same weapons that Caiaphas used, at the time Steiner described something which I have often brought to the attention of friends. Steiner described how an accumulated Ahrimanic Shadow projected out the Double, will begin to arise and walk next to the human.

Regarding this insight, I brought attention to John Nash and "A Beautiful Mind". If you know and certainly we can pull these lectures out, you will see that there is an accumulated Right Wing- Nominalistic shadow that is rising in a large portion of humanity that Steiner knew would become solid. Out of this solid and nursed shadow, carried through incarnations, naturally they will try to numb and medicate what has been created by our failed education. Here is where WC wishes to Stand and attack the wonder of the Waldorf Model of Education. Steiner warned that many in humanity will be eclipsed by this long cultivated Ahriman-Double and that it would begin to appear exactly where the human is in danger from the full impact of the tangible Ahrimanic Shadow. It would become a medical problem and people who speak sanely would be considered delusional because they were able to see the roots of where this problem has arisen.

But our failure to Study our culture and integrate deeper insights into psychology or linking, shaping and concerning ourselves with Ahrimanic Symptomology, allows us to miss the reference to John Nash's schizorphrenia and Steiner's sanity, which all hinges on St. Paul does it not? Nietzche, and I don't have to remind Tarjei of any of this, but Nietzsche was a true martyr to knowledge because Ahriman finally came out of the box and wrote. He wrote with the insight that confirms what Steiner knew. That slandering Jesus and "Thus Spake Zarathustra" was the rightful response from the ancient God that took over Nietzsche's hand. Like the wonderful example Tarjei wrote about the hand and the pen of John writing the Gospel and Revelation on Patmos.

In the concepts of Racism, the Super Race and the Spin of Ahriman in human brains the Ring Wing, psychiatry, the medical community and public education see no difference between Steiner and Nietzsche. This is the same street warfare of spin that dominates Rush Limbaugh and the Bush Adminstration and the current bid for Ahrimanic Imperialism over the whole globe. This is all the same breed and we must put our foot down on the head of the snake. We must understand the immense motives to imprison the thinking, soul and spiritual development of mankind within technology, medical science and cowardly fear because we have not studied how Steiner battled to keep freedom open for the human soul.

There is a wonderful tale about Kvasir and how the dwarfs stab Kvasir with their steely knives and steal his blood, that is the mead of the gods. These steely knives, reminds one of Hotel California, they stick it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast. In this case, in our Time, as students of Spiritual Science, we are all Kvasir's and we must not be naive about betrayal, and the steely knives that are used against someone like Steiner and St. Paul and fruits and research of Spiritual Science.

http://www.echoedvoices.org/Oct2002/Mead_of_Poetry.html

The story of the Mead of Poetry begins with the Aesir and the Vanir making a pact of peace after a lengthy war, which neither side was winning. The myth describes how the gods and goddesses spat into a vat, and how a man named Kvasir was created from that spit.

Following the creation of this man, who is in essence the repository of all the knowledge of all the gods and goddesses, they sent him out into the world to share his knowledge with the people. He meets with two dwarf brothers, who kill him, drain him of his blood, and make mead from it. They fall afoul of some Giants, and the Giants eventually claim the Mead for themselves. Odin finds out that the Giants have this mead, and sets out in disguise to claim it for himself. In the process of doing so, he kills nine thralls working in the fields gathering grass, works a season for Baugi, and tries to convince Baugi to get him a drink of the mead, much to Suttung's displeasure. Eventually, Odin manages to get Baugi to bore into the earth down to the cave where Suttung's daughter Gunlod sits guarding the mead. Odin seduces her and steals the mead, flying off in the form of an eagle toward Asgard with Suttung chasing him.

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From: Daniel Hindes
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] WC Quote of the Day

This one is a classic. You really should do a web page of these, a "Hall of Fame" as it were. You can really tell a lot about a person by such statements, and I think neutral readers would read him differently in light of this and similar statements.

Daniel

"We can judge Steiner's reports of his experiences as being fantasies, delusions, or fabrications. He's a good example of why you shouldn't do mind-emptying meditation!"

- Dan Dugan, Dec 27, 2003

[Tarjei comments: PLANS is a cult of ghostbusters dedicated to the pursuit of empty shadows.]

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:38 pm
Subject: The Transparent Child

In Occult research we have to learn to bring various seemingly unrelated items together, to view them more carefully. This is extremely enlightening and inspiring when you can actually see the connections.

The first connection was:

"An Individuality of extraordinary spirituality was incarnated in this child. It was necessary, in this case, for a process to be enacted which will never be repeated in the same form. The following does not describe a typical Initiation but is an altogether exceptional happening. It was necessary for this child to be removed from the environment into which he was born and to be placed in the care of the Twelve at a certain place in Europe. But it was not the external measures adopted by the twelve wise men that are of essential importance; what is important is the fact that the child grew up with the Twelve around him, and because of this, their wisdom was able to stream into him.

One of the Twelve, for example, possessed the Mars-wisdom and therewith a definite quality of soul - a mood-of-soul tempered by the form of culture standing under the influence of Mars. The forces of the Mars culture endowed this soul with the faculty, among others, of presenting the occult sciences with fiery enthusiasm and ardour.

Similar planetary influences were also at work in other faculties distributed among the Twelve. The development of the child's soul proceeded harmoniously under the influences pouring from the twelve wise men. And so the child grew up, under the unceasing care of the Twelve.

Then, at a certain time, when the child had grown into a young man of about 20, he was able to give expression to something that was a kind of reflex of the twelve streams of wisdom - but in a form altogether new, new even to the twelve wise men. The metamorphosis was accompanied by violent organic changes. Even physically the child had been quite unlike other human beings; he was often very ill and his body became transparent, as though filled with light."

The Second connection we can draw is:

There is a wonderful tale about Kvasir and how the dwarfs stab Kvasir with their steely knives and steal his blood, that is the mead of the gods. These steely knives, reminds one of Hotel California, they stick it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast. In this case, in our Time, as students of Spiritual Science, we are all Kvasir's and we must not be naive about betrayal, and the steely knives that are used against someone like Steiner and St. Paul and fruits and research of Spiritual Science.

http://www.echoedvoices.org/Oct2002/Mead_of_Poetry.html

The story of the Mead of Poetry begins with the Aesir and the Vanir making a pact of peace after a lengthy war, which neither side was winning. The myth describes how the gods and goddesses spat into a vat, and how a man named Kvasir was created from that spit.

Following the creation of this man, who is in essence the repository of all the knowledge of all the gods and goddesses, they sent him out into the world to share his knowledge with the people. He meets with two dwarf brothers, who kill him, drain him of his blood, and make mead from it. They fall afoul of some Giants, and the Giants eventually claim the Mead for themselves. Odin finds out that the Giants have this mead, and sets out in disguise to claim it for himself. In the process of doing so, he kills nine thralls working in the fields gathering grass, works a season for Baugi, and tries to convince Baugi to get him a drink of the mead, much to Suttung's displeasure. Eventually, Odin manages to get Baugi to bore into the earth down to the cave where Suttung's daughter Gunlod sits guarding the mead. Odin seduces her and steals the mead, flying off in the form of an eagle toward Asgard with Suttung chasing him.

Bradford comments;

Steiner describes twelve streams, and from these twelve streams the evolved Rishis and post Atlantean Initiates create a new body for the TWelvefold Initiate Christian Rosenkreutz. WE follow the mysterious reality and history of this actual earthly personality that was Initially Initiated by Christ. WE follow hidden history through the 13th century Initiation, The immense Spirits of Form and Archai potential is streamed into this frail and sick child to become the higher model for all humanity.

We are looking at actual individuals. Rishis from Atlantis through India and god knows, Egypt and Rome. We are tracking, with Spiritual Science the things that are important. We follow the capacity of people the heart and tenor of soul of individuals that really existed but are described as myth. But these are real facts. Where is the delusion and illusion in how some approach reading and understanding these things?

Kvasir is made from the combined spittle, spit of the twelve streams, hidden in the twelve streams is the culminating Thirteenth and this must be clearly reckoned with. In human blood and body weight a human being is in a cosmic ratio of 13 to 1.. The Cow is in a ratio of body weight to blood as 12/1 and contains, as a Cow and why mad cow is an intersting issue, the cow contains the twelve cosmic streams to produce the bone support system for the Blood. Twelvefold represent the streams of any and all zodical seed forms. But the 13th is always there at the round table or the Last Supper or the Lamb of the Zodiac. Inside the Skeletal twelvefold structure, is the blood in the marrow of the bones.

Shall we grind up the bones of sheep and cattle, pigs and chickens and feed them back to the cows themselves? What would even stop us grinding up the reamins of humans? Cannabalistic tribes end up having this spongy brain disease that has infects the brain, spine and bones of beings trained to be cannibals of their own species. This is wrong.

Kvasir is molded and imbued with all the wisdom of the Gods and his blood is mead. By mixing honey with this blood the Dwarves that Kill HIm make "The Mead of Poetry". Blood, the Rose, the Red of Mars and the Gold of the Sun along with the nectar and plant sweetness of the Sun Gold honey in the blood, indicates a potent mystery. It is the mystery of Science and Poetry, this thinking is required to be actively working in the Michael School.

We look into the Golgotha Blood, that literally arose at the 11th hour of the 3 year incubation of the Christ Being in Jesus. We know, we should know, that a Fission of the Thrones compressed the blood of Jesus so he actually sweated blood from the mighty inward thrust of the Father forces or Seraphim, Thrones, and Cherubim that fused down to the bone marrow in the blood substance of Jesus. From this elixir of Devachan imbued blood the golden immortal fire cooked in the compression chamber of the Jesus Being was enough to heal Planet Earth and light the ignition fire of the new science of Immortality. Note Science not myth. Not Dashboard Jesus and a Fundie mind set.

When this blood dripped from the wounds and splashed to the Earth at Golgotha, we have, for Science to look at, a re-fissioning of the XY Chromosomal structure, because, contrary to Dottie, it is Men that have XY female and male bridge to the higher Resurrection Body. It is an odd fact of science that the xx of women cannot serve the dual male and female blueprint as well. But someone had to become the new Earth miracle model of the Christ direction pulling the Earth towards the Seraphim. Science tells us where, when, how and for what reasons this was done. Do people get it? No. They are missing large chunks of the Michael School in their thinking.

The remaking of the human being is what the whole Chymical Wedding is all about. Here you can read for yourself a Secret in plain sight and very few tend to see it. We tend in our Intellect to disgard myth for all the blistering coolness of factoids. We fail to see that we are talking about history and science and that the deepest mysteries can be unriddled.

But the Chymical Wedding arose after the twelve streams had made the sickly transparent child, let John tell you, Sweetness that is bitter to the belly when you Eat the Book. EAting the Book is to become the Initiated Reprsentative or Financial officer to the Tree of Life. This is also what the Chymical Wedding was about.

Putting related Initiation pictures together brings some startling things to light. One, is history, actual history of real events. Two is that myth has had to be used to even imagine what truly has happened around the whole events of the Gods. Myth and History equals a new Science of the Spirit. It requires a new type of rich thinking that very few can handle. We need all those who can handle it without letting their ahrimanized or luciferic tendencies muffle the work that Steiner gave us to contemplate. Real Science.

Bradford

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From: winters_diana
Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: WC Quote of the Day

Although, as usual, I am not really sure exactly what Bradford's post is about, I am commenting because it seems to have been inspired by a quote from Dan Dugan that was reproduced here, suggesting Steiner was delusional, and it later refers to the "WC," and immediately thereafter refers to parents putting their children on Ritalin (I presume this is what is meant by "Ridlin") . . . implying, if I understand correctly, some sort of connection between posting on the Waldorf critics list and being eager to see children take Ritalin. I'd just like to note that, in my experience on the critics list for several years, I don't recall the topic of putting children on Ritalin even being discussed. This is not something that PLANS takes a position on. I would say that, in a very general way, parents coming out of Waldorf, just like parents going in, tend to be wary of medication. In general, former Waldorf parents still have more in common with current Waldorf parents than they do with the larger culture. Bradford is perhaps not aware of this; he seems to have a rather grisly image in his mind of who the people are who leave Waldorf schools disillusioned. They are, to state the obvious, Waldorf parents. I don't know what Ahriman's position on Ritalin is, or Sauron's, and actually I don't know Dan's either, but even if Dan is in fact Sauron, he isn't out pushing medication for children.

Bradford wrote:
Thereby the parents who hear this, run to Ridlin and medication to numb the actual spiritual world where from these little accumulated materialistic haphazard combination of cells, called children,they can be safeguarded in the world of the sane according to the Ring Wing and WC version of sanity. This is nor personal this is global Ahrimanic spin.

The same Worm Tongue is behind these observations and the same stamp of soul that has painted Paul into a corner. It is interesting to see how the WC has invited Ahriman to be the guest intellectual speaker

<snip>

It is safer to medicate our children, cut off the opportunity of chronic depression, manic depression that arises without a Spiritual World View,

<snip>

I am surprised that so many of you all go in to tangle, and perhaps to see for yourself, exactly what inspiration arises in the souls of those, determined to call Ahriman King and Paul insane."

For the record, I haven't heard anyone over on critics call Ahriman King either. I personally am no more interested in Ahriman than any other gods. He sure generates a lot of interest here.

For it follows as Night follows Day that if Steiner is nuts, delusional, all of Pauline Christianity is delusional.

It doesn't follow "as night follows day" for the millions of people who do, in fact, follow Pauline Christianity, and don't follow Steiner.

the Ring Wing, psychiatry, the medical community and public education see no difference between Steiner and Nietzsche. This is the same street warfare of spin that dominates Rush Limbaugh and the Bush Adminstration and the current bid for Ahrimanic Imperialism over the whole globe. This is all the same breed and we must put our foot down on the head of the snake."

Hey Bradford, I don't like the Bush administration either. But it's when you start talk about putting your foot down on the head of the snake that you start to scare me. From what I have gleaned from your posts, it appears you believe that I (by virtue of criticizing Waldorf) worship someone called Ahriman, and I am bad, the same way the "medical community" and "public education" are bad (I don't know what the "Ring Wing" is; I thought it said Right Wing at first, and I was about to inform you that the medical community and public education aren't, generally, right wing; but I see I am over my head here). Anyway you need to put your foot on my head to stop me? You wonder why some people think anthroposophy is creepy?
Diana

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From: holderlin66
Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:10 pm
Subject: Re: WC Quote of the Day/Diana

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, winters_diana wrote:

Dear Diana;

You are right, I didn't spend a lot of time correcting that post. Ring Wing was Right Wing and Ridlin wasn't anything to do with Riddles, nor was Ring Wing anything to do with the Ring Lords. It was Ritalin and thanks for catching those unedited errors.

As to, "The Devil made me do it" from the Church Lady of our Lady of Innocence SAturday Night Live or the Rod Serling version of,

"We're normal people, people with ordinary jobs and families and a variety of religious affiliations (and some not) and we do things like go to the movies, have family holiday get togethers, play with our kids, volunteer in the community, coach sports, help at our kids' schools. We do not serve gods of darkness. Grow up, Bradford."

But that is what we all do. In such pretty subdivisions and standing as protectors to our children's future with are warm little hopes and dreams, we all try to think this thing through. My children went through Waldorf Education and as you I find many faults in certain specifally run schools and certain attitudes that have evolved from the school of "Steiner Said".

But such carboard cut outs of any normal person is to say, as I have many times, that when it comes to a paycheck I could more easily trust people who weren't connected to Spiritual Science. I have nursed the horrible disappoint, on the otherside of my consciousness that "certainly if people knew the right thing to do, they would gladly do it". We all learn to see where our errors in thinking lead to. For some people, as you well know, they still beileve that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

It has been said many times, that I would actually like G.Bush, guy to guy, if I sat down and talked with him, and do as I do with everyone else, file my discerning Michael Eye and Ear away and merely let the cowboy in us both have a smoke and a long talk. We'd all see eye to eye and part of my soul would like the guy. Well that is probably true. But the other part of the equation is also true, that my discerning ear and eye is watching the better part of America disintegrate under this Administrations blatant forked tongue.

So not to over simplify the dualistic nature of knowledge it is easy to see we can all sit down at a table and be civil with each other. We can eat hotdogs and talk about our war stories in education, public and private, and yet there are, as you have wisely pointed out, areas in my soul that I consider worth defending.

My Education in Christianity has come through Spiritual Science and having had a grandmother who was a Lutheran. My wife was a wonderful Jewish girl and we shared the adventure of our lives at the Goetheanum. The Christ Being has taken on deeper and deeper context to me, along with the Being of Michael and measuring what an Angelic Being is. Say, as an example, how Buddha was able to come to the point where he no longer had to incarnate on Earth. Which isn't to say I am in any hurry to get off this rock. I am keenly interested in what part of the soul is transformed in this process and how fairs it with Saints, the Church and me, myself and I? But most importantly, did Steiner describe in his pattern of change of teeth, through the seven year rhythms of biography, Soul map changes that are objective? Was he ahead of Jung and everyone else? YES! YES! Is he Making all this stuff up? NO.

What Beings, beside good ole human Beings in flesh and blood, can I detect with my cognition? Are there other beings or should I remain rather bland about all this and stick with Mick's and Milton's "Sympathy for the Devil"?

Cognition and discernment have to be grown. It is all well and good that you just want us to admit, for the sake of argument that the 'good doctor' was wrong sometimes. And this, with the mountain of what he was right about, compared to the rest of human research, means what to you? That you win some prize? That you can walk away from Spiritual Science and Waldorf Education and say, you survived and have a 'T' shirt to prove it?

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith
And I was 'round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
'cause I'm in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name
I tell you one time, you're to blame

...................................................................................................................................

From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:06 pm
Subject:

01 Oct 2001

Tarjei
With this background, your reference to your own work as "historical scholarship" is a pompous hoax and an embarrassment to the profession.

Peter Staudenmaier:
I don't see how it could be an embarrassment to professional historians, since I'm not one.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

...................................................................................................................................

 

From: Joel Wendt
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:24 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: WC Quote of the Day

Dear Diana,

I want to thank you for coming to this list, and if you wouldn't mind I'd like to try to express to you the essential problems I have with the WC list, and have you reply to those you believe you have something to say concerning. I'll list them by numbers, and try to give examples.

1. Disrespect for the life work of others.

It is one thing to have a disagreement over someone's "ideas", and another thing to not be willing to acknowledge accomplishment. For example, Dan has always trotted out his "weird science" stuff, among which he lists the idea of the threefold form of the human being.

For years I tried to get him to read W. Schad's book Man and Mammals, and when he finally did, he dismissed it with a couple of lines. Now Schad isn't some weird science thinker, but an accomplished biologist, who not only mastered his field of interest, but also the anthroposophically oriented work as well. Not only that, but Schad was not just an academician, but an excellent observer in the field, having devoted his life to this calling, spending years in mastering the literature, and in the field making first hand observations of countless mammals in their natural habitat.

But it is not convenient to Dan's world view to admit that such accomplishment exists or to honor the life that has been devoted to learning something about which Dan can't even be considered an amateur.

Peter F. likes to put down anthroposophical medicine, especially the homeopathy aspect. But he is not a doctor, and has not taken up the responsibility to master this art of healing. Dan likes to call anthroposophical doctors quacks, which again is extremely demeaning, and has no justification at all.

Anthroposophical doctors are not sellers of useless patent medicines, but people devoted to helping others with their illnesses. These doctors not only have to master medical practice and get licensed, but then add to that study and accomplishment, further work of a most difficult sort - work neither Peter F. nor Dan has even begun to consider.

I have a dear friend, a woman, who went to medical school at a time when this was very hard for a woman to do. Just becoming board certified in internal medicine is quite an accomplishment. Yet, as her practice grew, like many physicians today, she became disenchanted with commercial medicine, and found that there were other ways of seeking to heal that were more effective for the patient, although not enriching of her own pocket book. She now runs a practice which is called "simple care", and has open hours (no appointment necessary, just show up with your need). She opted out of insurance with all its huge and needless paperwork, still pays horrible mal-practice insurance costs, and provides care to hundreds of folks who come because what she does works, and her patients are always recommending others into her care.

She frequently adjusts her fees to fit the patients needs (at her own expense) and gives away as much medicine as she sells. She is well respected in her community and among her allopathic (regular medicine) peers, to whom she makes referrals when her patients needs require that kind of care.

But do Peter F. and Dan honor this work, this accomplishment which is beyond them to do? No.

Now Peter F. loves to make references to research that seems to suggest that homeopathy doesn't work. I recently read a report on such research, which undertook to examine the effectiveness of echinacea. Here is some comments by a physician who follows this problem:

Finally, a word should be spoken about the problem with biased research against natural medicine and the uneven playing field/double standard whereby natural products are criticized unfairly in the medical / scientific press. For example, the immune enhancing effect of the echinacea plant was maligned in a recent study at University of Washington. What happened here? Well, anyone doing research on Echinacea should know that different parts of plants feature different potencies of medicinal value. For example, the part of Echinacea that is considered medicinal is its ROOT. Bear that in mind as you read the conclusion of the study (funded by your tax dollars) which finds that Echinacea was not helpful. Yet, what part did the scientist use? The blossom!

Then there is the criticism of my work by Peter S. and Walden, wherein my "racist" remarks are pointed out, over and over and over again. Nothing is said about the research of years, nor is the point of the paragraphs even accepted within its context, which was all about pointing out to the anthroposophical movement that in order to understand America, one had to appreciate and honor the First Nations Peoples. And, this point was itself buried inside a much larger piece about totally other matters.

Now neither of the above gentlemen has walked in my shoes, or done the years of research that stands behind that article. I doubt they have the capacity or the talent, or the desire to understand or work toward understanding the root questions that I have devoted myself to trying to unravel. For example, "historical necessity" is a well known concept for true students of history (something Peter S. most assuredly is not) This means nothing to them, except that they can take some words of mine, twist their meaning and then score points.

This leads us to problem number 2.

2. The falsification of meaning, by refusing to acknowledge that the writer or speaker may have meant something other than what the listener heard or the reader read (and quite likely wanted to hear or read).

There are sciences of language, and plenty of works that can be read about the problem of meaning in the use of words to communicate from one person to another. The amateur thinkers that Dan and Peter S. are, could, if they cared to do a righteous job, undertake to make the acquittance of these disciplines regarding meaning and language. But such work is inconvenient to the point of view being sold on the PLANS website, and advocated endlessly on the Critic's List.

Many of the flaws in Peter S's arguments are flaws of learning about meaning in general, and also flaws of logic. Yet, the temper of the list is such that anything that can be used against Steiner and anthroposophy, has to be used, and real learning and rationality are to be ignored in favor of finding support for prejudice, preconception and bias.

Any competent historian, and certainly any true student of language, knows that you cannot not export the meaning of terms from the present, as a means of evaluating the meaning of words used in the past. One must (MUST!), investigate the meanings of words as they were used in the past, and master not only that, but the cultural context in which those terms are embedded. Otherwise one clearly falsifies the meaning, essentially inventing a meaning that has nothing to do with what the speaker said.

This is so basic and well known, that it is really quite remarkable that Dan and Peter S. are allowed to get away with it over and over again, by supposedly "educated" people who come to the list.

Then there is the ignoring of what Steiner created as a context in which he spoke. There are two typical kinds of problems here.

The first and foremost, is that he began his life's work by focusing on the problem of knowledge - how do we know what we believe we know? He wrote three books (Truth and Science -1881, A Theory of Knowledge Implicit in Goethe's World Conception - 1886, and The Philosophy of Freedom -1894). This is not some silly problem, but was rather the main issue of the time (the 19th Century) for the whole of the scientific impulse.

Everything Steiner later said in his many lectures and books was based upon the conclusions to which one is led who undertakes to master not just the ideas of those books, but more centrally, the personal experiences evoked.

Peter S. and Dan basically pretend this part of Steiner's work doesn't exist, and as again this is very inconvenient for their world view, whenever they can they dismiss this with out really considering it, or acknowledging the incredible accomplishment. The real problem for them is, of course, that they are unwilling to risk the personal journey, for they know instinctively that the world view to which they hold on to for dear life would not stand if they faced the reality of their own inner life and what "thinking" as a human activity really means.

That is the foundational problem, but there is a second problem as well. This is the one that Sune has worked with, and which Peter S. and Dan ignore as much as possible.

Steiner was a pioneer, and he did research and asked questions of a quite different sort than most of his contemporaries. His material on race, on the evolution of consciousness, and on history in general was far outside the main stream of his day, or even still today. This required that he use all manner of common words to try to convey quite different ideas.

He did not use the term race in the way we mean today, and nothing could be clearer in his writing. But this fact is again inconvenient to Peter S. and Dan. So heaven forbid we take Steiner's meaning, instead lets invent our own version of it, for with that invention - that lie - we can vilify him in a most horrible way, by finding his work causally related to the worst evil of this century.

Then there is the cute, but quite illogical, spin that is used, whereby Peter S. says that an idea can be racist, but the speaker who uttered the idea would not be a racist. In the science of logic this is called a distinction without a difference. It is a childish play with words, whereby meaning is strangled and replaced with fantasy. To accept such an idea, one has to stop thinking in a rational way entirely.

Now to problem #3.

3. The abuse of logic, true learning and reason, and the disrespect for the accomplishment of others, actually harms and undercuts all the quite legitimate and fully justified problems with Waldorf Education toward which a more rationally oriented PLANS and WC-list could contribute.

Former Waldorf parents, such as yourself, could do a great work toward the improvement of education in general for all parents and all children, if this work of looking with an intelligent and critical eye at the Waldorf School movement was not so confused with the above excesses.

Anthroposophy, being a human enterprise, clearly has failures, one of the main ones being the taking over of the Waldorf impulse by Steinerism, a dogmatic and un-anthroposophical religious-like (I won't say cult-like because that is patently untrue) belief system.

Further, in the bringing forth of Waldorf in America several terrible mistakes were made, two of the main ones being the allowing of two middle European men to dominate the training of the backbone of Waldorf trained women that have come to be leading lights in so many schools. These two men did not know what they were doing, and never questioned their ability to understand the soul life of Americans or their expertise in a land to which they came as "spiritual imperialists".

In addition, Waldorf succumbed to the fear of many parents concerning public schools, expanded far too fast, and let too many people, entirely unsuitable for the teaching of young minds, become teachers.

The above, coupled with the excesses of Steinerism, meant that when parents had legitimate questions, no one competent on a social level was there to answer them. This might not have happened, but in the late 1970's, when the teacher training center that became Rudolf Steiner College was being born, and then taken over out of the over-reaching of European influences (spiritual imperialism), the companion piece - a center for the study of the social question in America - was destroyed. Thus, teachers began to be trained, without the wise social intelligence that was meant to have been their counterpart.

But PLANS (principally Dan, who now has attached to this work an entirely inadequate faux scholar, Peter S.) is more bent on destruction than creation. Instead of being the wise and critically intelligent partner it could be, by seeing the real potential in Waldorf, and then working to cure its defects, PLANS/WClist instead seeks out the destruction of that impulse, tearing down and throwing out the good with the bad, all in a hubris of a self indulgent self important mission to rid the world of anthroposophy, something Dan has not actually seen or understood.

To the tragedy of Steinerism, PLANS adds its own excesses, and it will really only be the children and the parents, who want to find desperately something wiser than government (and now more and more business) run public education, who suffer.

warm regards,
joel

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:12 am
Subject: Re: WC Quote of the Day

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Joel Wendt wrote:

Dear Joel;

Masterful and balanced. I loved "Spiritual Imperialists" nice. If you keep writing like this we may have to make you into Cosmopolitan Treasure.

Even today, the Orin Hatch crew, have waited to start to attack Organic remedies with new FDA scares to start dismantling remedies like echinacea. Great reporting on how the perverted science seeks to gain a foothold over the market of remedies by distorting true research with spin then taking over their market share.

Point to Point you did a Masterly job walking through complex issues, I thank you.

...................................................................................................................................

From: holderlin66
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:13 pm
Subject: Historical fair treatment

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, holderlin66 wrote:

Rudiments of Educational Perspective:

learn to read what
silent love hath writ,
to hear with eyes
belongs to love's fine wit.

Bradford wrote:

education see no difference between Steiner and Nietzsche.

When Steiner is included in the historical development of western thought, and not assassinated, a great deal of insight can be drawn. I offer this interesting research work as Exhibit A:

http://differnet.com/experience/sec6c.htm

Though Nietzsche tilted at the windmill of the future, his knightly armour sparkled and creaked with his own time's apparatus of the sciences, even while a great deal of his challenge unfurled to pointedly mock the history of 'civilized institutions'.

Rudolf Steiner, by contrast, was nothing like a lone knight; he put his life together more in responsible relation to friends and followers than on the basis of Nietzsche's self-conscious intention to make it difficult for the future to lose him once they had found him.

The Anti-Christ titles one of Nietzsche's later works.

Because Nietzsche was more 'the Anti-Kant' than The Anti-Christ, he felt obliged to sum himself up and brand himself upon what he took to be the German people with more of their own medicine.

Steiner never admitted that suicidal narrowing into national identity as his land's fate accompli; he found sufficient diversity and aptitude for what he tried to teach as 'supersensible perception' among the people who sought him out, to dedicate his life to them. Steiner made use of the cultural potencies at hand to give his practice social effect. So unless we can begin to recognize the scope of Steiner's intentions, the means he brought to bear might make his work seem nearly antithetical to the advance of thinking, might even suggest that he was involved in a confused (and confusing) conglomeration of atavisms.

As a 'renegade', a thinker involved in transformative practice, Steiner leaves us no culminating type of synthesis which can picture us the order and value of his thought, though anyone who observes a healthy Waldorf school might have from Steiner something better than such a picture. Here is one way Steiner has sent himself toward the future - through the children as a favor to them. One wonders what it says about our time that such a result of thinking could remain so little acknowledged for so long.

The amorphousness of Steiner's legacy is compounded not only by the instrumentalities of its dissemination in his time and additionally its mediations in our own, but also by the nature of the direction in which he was fundamentally turned. Steiner surely stood at the other end of the boat from Whitehead and Nietzsche as it crossed into the twentieth century, looking not toward the unknown land looming in advance but into the homeland vanishing aft.

Steiner's work, like Dilthey's and Husserl's in its prodigiality, embodies a response to the Romantic position that Mind's foundations and its capacity for truth belong first to Mind's productivity - to use Goethe's word in Faust, its deeds.

Steiner's six-thousand-odd transcribed lectures are mostly staged on the basis of what most thinkers would take as mythological content, and within those lectures Steiner works to call forth apprehensions whose meanings employ such 'mythic' frames of reference. Even by late nineteenth century standards, when the study of myth seemed to be of preeminent importance for coming to terms with the origins and destiny of humanity, Steiner's approach constituted the breaking of taboos for many of the thinkers of his time. Not just because he could be seen as the focus of a 'cult', but even more because instead of using myth as a subject for conceptual analysis, he asked for a kind of participation in typically mythic distinctions which could not be reduced to objectifying relations: Steiner said that he meant to teach Imagination, Inspiration, and Intuition.

These words signified faculties offering insights and relations in reality which were not susceptible to capture in externalizable ideas. Their truth was characterized as a function of the concrete reality whose gathering together constituted their occasion. Such truths belong to their moments as incarnations for awareness and can not be well used as building blocks for systems of concepts.

Steiner's choice of the lexicon of myth for teaching such faculties WAS in accord with the general sense of the relevance of myth in the later half of the Nineteenth century: in different ways both scholars and seekers reached toward the spiritual forms of the past as holding things decisively missing from their own time. Most came to concur that mythical awareness was the earliest and most fertile ground of human meaning.

The scholars felt obliged at least to show how their own 'more advanced' ways of thinking had developed from these origins, and some even maintained that without characterizing the seminal status of mythic awareness, more developed kinds of thought were doomed to crucial self-misunderstandings.

Ernst Cassirer emerged as the most eloquent of these thinkers. The seekers of that time went farther: What had been left behind in mythic awareness for them either contained more truth than what had replaced it, or its seminality needed to be recaptured in the context of modern thinking. As I see it, Rudolf Steiner assigned himself to this latter task.

In contrast to Cassirer's 'mainstream' approach to giving status to the role of myth in human awareness, Rudolf Steiner taught practices working to draw directly on mind's vital roots in mythic awareness. His teachings suggest that thinking without its mythic foundations is like mind without body - a fiction suitable mostly for testing the limits of partial premises. Steiner's attempt to rejoin thinking to its foundations antedates both Cassirer's picture of mind's past and our time's emphasis on what is called 'unconscious mind'. Unlike the latter, Steiner's teachings were not framed by intentions of intellectual leverage to pry into mind's underlying strata: More often than not he rather ended up telling stories meant to subtly evoke participation in the vast reservoirs of mythic meaning. It is hard to elsewhere find plausible parallels with these stories - though the potent role of stories in the education of children, for example in potentiating thresholds of learning between waking and dreaming, perhaps suggests something of how Steiner expected HIS stories to function for adults.

Modern thinkers should be prepared to recognize that insofar as Steiner resolutely worked to 'mind in time', logical relations cannot adequately characterize most of the distinctions he employed. Further, as James and Whitehead point out, where entitites are conceptualized as including duration in their boundaries they must be understood not only as nested (as in the logical relation of class membership) but also as overlapping. Nevertheless, when Steiner repopulates the 'spiritual world' with waxing and waning mythologically recognizable beings and so evicts many of philosophy's 'timeless ideas', it may come as something of a shock - even if it can be seen that these terms conform not only to an interpretation of previously characterized historical and formal philosophical requirements, but also to the world we observe where indeed beings are made of other beings, stories of other stories, in ways that defy the strictures of class hierarchies.

Even allowing, however, that Steiner's recapture of mythic awareness offers contemporary thinking a more concrete and inclusive kind of mind, it remains crucial to point out that the stories by which Steiner predominantly works to bring us toward such capacity are at pains to avoid inviting atavistic involvements in mythic awareness. For Steiner the modern sense of self-experience is an advance not to be relinquished or even suspended; his turn toward the foundations of human awareness calls on subtle courses of discrimination based on processes of observation inclusive of one's own apprehending activity. These to some extent parallel the methods characterized within the Husserlian phenomenology, and perhaps reflect his studies with Franz Brentano.

Steiner's turn toward the past, like Cassirer's, was from a modern perspective, an effort to assure we do not lose the breadth and latency of our human inheritance and so imperil our human future. Both were driven to exhibit the wholeness of the universe of human meaning even through its roots in earlier modes of experience.

Both carried into their work Kant's questions and the way Kant had revised philosophy's basic distinctions, even while looking to Goethe as an exemplar of wisdom in description and observation. Most of all perhaps, their respective intensive studies of Hegel shaped their narrative dynamics and their explanatory use of Reason, though for Steiner the spells cast by riddles substitute for the demands made by contradictions. And while a sense for the past dominates the content of their works, both labored to clear space for what the future was bringing.

Steiner's thinking, though, unlike Cassirer's, is committed to transformative practice. As did Nietzsche, whose work Steiner characterized as fraternally linked with his own‡, Steiner brought thinking into time through his life's challenges and retrospectively gave voice as best he could to the organic connections, found through living presence, of past and future. And so, while Nietzsche's glossolalia of transvaluations continues to awaken us to what is actually and just now still coming to us, Steiner's tales of worlds past hold a door ajar to where mind sleeps in dreaming the world it wakes to think within.

Like Cassirer, Steiner recognized that meanings drawn from the foundations of the life of the mind were immanent in their occurence and not transportable into conceptual systems. Moments of such meaning - fully engaged with their embedding contemporary world- process - Steiner called supersensible perceptions. For Steiner, unlike Cassirer, the qualities of such occasions are not summary intensities of concentration and identification, but occur in a modality resembling but not to be confused with remembrance; on a ground more kin to duration and absence than one of extension and presence. Here Steiner anticipates not only Bergson's previously cited distinctions, but also Heidegger's methodological immersion of thinking in temporality.

Moreover, Steiner's accounts of supersensible perception example a kind of movement of transcendence distinct from those identified above. While the insistence of experience's conceptual elements offer a transcendence whose temporality is futural, and the submission to mind's constitutive activities brings transcendence into presence, it is held here that on the basis of experiencing metaphor transcendence opens toward the past. Though Paul Ricoeur in our own period does explore metaphor's centrality for mind, and Steiner has left extensive records of his travels in such regions, the type of transcendence which opens for experience through metaphor on its own terms remains terra incognita for most secular thinkers.

But metaphor is the single door that opens onto everything AND nothing. Its function relies on the past's essential equivocation between what is and what is not. While concepts give form, and perceptual activity sense, it is metaphor - as Cassirer saw - that is the wellspring of meaning. And it is meaning that we feel as mind's embodiment. Much remains undone for illuminating such transcendence, Steiner's breakthroughs notwithstanding. We will largely limit our subsequent treatment of this area to symbols, but these, by holding worldly form, leave us outside of much of metaphor's significance.

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