Mel Gibson or RS
From: holderlin66
Date: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:38 pm
Subject: Mel Gibson or RS
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/7/prweb73806.php
"In the current global
clash of civilizations, I'm surprised that some Jewish leaders
would protest a movie portraying the final hours of Christ's
life. There is a great deal of pressure on Israel right now,
and Christians seem to be a major source of support for Israel.
For the Jewish leaders to risk alienating 2 billion Christians
over a movie seems shortsighted," Haggard said. "On
one hand, it actually feels trite," Haggard continues, "It
would have been ridiculous for England to have launched a public
relations effort against BraveHeart because it portrays William
Wallace in a positive light, who led a rebellion against the
British.""
Bradford comments;
Fish anywhere you like and put Steiner's name
where Gibson's is and you have all the fuel you need to show
an on going deep seated battle that does to Steiner that same
as it does to Gibson and is using race baiting in a self serving
manner.
The Fundamental Christians and George Bush
are "Loving It" that Israel is in the spot they are
in. Why? Because of the End Times Prophecy nuts. George Bush
under his religious "Dominionism" and his mission from
God to prepare Christians for "The Rapture" is doing
his "I'm the saved drunk in the White House" dance
with all his phony Fundie Sentient Soul macho slime.
Who will vote him back again? Those who race
bait and can't wait for the entrance of Jesus back in the flesh,
walking through Israel again with his digital camera and a japanese
tour bus. If you want to do us a favor. Look at Race Baiting
Gibson and how the Christians back the position of Israel, not
because it is right, but because it is expected for the end times.
There are serious gazillion seller books depicting
this end time scenario just the way Georgy Porgy and the U.S.
is acting. The Chosen nation of Christians swept up in glory...
give us a friggin break. Why do we dislike George Bush, because
of the way his Neocon friends of Israel are playing George. George
is being played and American Fundamentalism is buying it.
Gibson is really the center of or eye of the
storm of all the complexity of the arguments that can easily
be asked about RS as they can be about Mel Gibson. Anyone who
squeaks out that the military intelligence and covert actions
of the Mossad had anything to do with aspects of 9/11 goes really
against the grain of the current, ARABS our enemies of Big Brother.
There is a huge set up here and RS happens to be one tiny aspect
of an argument. But I say, answer the argument with Gibson and
all that Israel is covertly baiting in this mix.
Couldn't Steiner or The Stay Puff Marshmellow
Man cause anti-semitism? What is the difference?
"A leading Jewish group
has condemned Mel Gibson's controversial film about Christ, saying
it could fuel anti-Semitism.
The Anti-Defamation League
is the latest group to speak out against The Passion, Gibson's
depiction of Jesus' crucifixion and events leading up to it,
saying it was "dangerous".
In a statement, the group
said the film showed Jewish authorities and the Jewish mob as
being responsible for the decision to crucify Jesus.
Gibson's spokesman, however,
said there was no suggestion of the film being anti-Semitic.
The Anti-Defamation League
said the movie had been seen by Rabbi Eugene Korn, its director
of inter-faith affairs.
No one associated with this
film has any interest in fuelling hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism
Mel Gibson's spokesman He
said it contained "many dangerous teachings" that Christians
and Jews had worked to counter.
He hoped that Gibson and his
film production company would "consider modifying"
the movie.
The group's national director,
Abraham Foxman, added: "We are deeply concerned that the
film, if released in its present form, will fuel the hatred,
bigotry and anti-Semitism that many responsible churches have
worked hard to repudiate."
But Gibson's publicist Alan
Nierob said: "No one associated with this film has any interest
in fuelling hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism.
"In fact, Mel's interest
is just the opposite as he has stated previously that this film
is about love, hope, faith and forgiveness."
Gibson is director of The
Passion, which stars The Thin Red Line's Jim Caviezel and Monica
Bellucci. It features Latin and Aramaic dialogue and no English
subtitles.
Earlier, Gibson himself said
he believed the movie would "inspire not offend". "
...................................................................................................................................
From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Mel Gibson or RS
Bradford,
I'm also having trouble understanding you.
Do you mean that MI (which? U.S.?) and Mossad were behind 9/11?
- or only with "aspects" of 9/11? If so, I would be
interested in seeing evidence of same, such that newspapers
such as the NY Times (Pentagon Papers) and the Washington Post
(Deep Throat), are covering it up.
Frank
[Bradford:]
Gibson is really the center of or eye of
the storm of all the complexity of the arguments that can easily
be asked about RS as they can be about Mel Gibson. Anyone who
squeaks out that the military intelligence and covert actions
of the Mossad had anything to do with aspects of 9/11 goes really
against the grain of the current, ARABS our enemies of Big Brother.
There is a huge set up here and RS happens to be one tiny aspect
of an argument. But I say, answer the argument with Gibson and
all that Israel is covertly baiting in this mix.
...................................................................................................................................
From: holderlin66
Date: Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:46 pm
Subject: Re: Mel Gibson or RS/Frank
--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
Frank Thomas Smith wrote:
Bradford,
I'm also having trouble understanding you.
Do you mean that MI (which? U.S.?) and Mossad were behind 9/11?
- or only with "aspects" of 9/11? If so, I would be
interested in seeing evidence of same, such that newspapers
such as the NY Times (Pentagon Papers) and the Washington Post
(Deep Throat), are covering it up.
http://paris.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=13259
Sunday Herald - 02 November
2003 Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into
the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ... Were they part of a
massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that
al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA ?
Neil Mackay investigates
THERE was ruin and terror
in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful
of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled,
the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed
on American soil as it played out before their eyes.
Who do you think they were
? Palestinians ? Saudis ? Iraqis, even ? Al-Qaeda, surely ? Wrong
on all counts. They were Israelis - and at least two of them
were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent
of MI6 or the CIA.
Their discovery and arrest
that morning is a matter of indisputable fact. To those who have
investigated just what the Israelis were up to that day, the
case raises one dreadful possibility : that Israeli intelligence
had been shadowing the al-Qaeda hijackers as they moved from
the Middle East through Europe and into America where they trained
as pilots and prepared to suicide-bomb the symbolic heart of
the United States. And the motive ? To bind America in blood
and mutual suffering to the Israeli cause.
After the attacks on New York
and Washington, the former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu,
was asked what the terrorist strikes would mean for US-Israeli
relations. He said : "It's very good." Then he corrected
himself, adding : "Well, it's not good, but it will generate
immediate sympathy [for Israel from Americans]."
If Israel's closest ally felt
the collective pain of mass civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists,
then Israel would have an unbreakable bond with the world's only
hyperpower and an effective free hand in dealing with the Palestinian
terrorists who had been murdering its innocent civilians as the
second intifada dragged on throughout 2001.
It's not surprising that the
New Jersey housewife who first spotted the five Israelis and
their white van wants to preserve her anonymity. She's insisted
that she only be identified as Maria. A neighbour in her apartment
building had called her just after the first strike on the Twin
Towers. Maria grabbed a pair of binoculars and, like millions
across the world, she watched the horror of the day unfold.
As she gazed at the burning
towers, she noticed a group of men kneeling on the roof of a
white van in her parking lot. Here's her recollection : "They
seemed to be taking a movie. They were like happy, you know
... they didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was strange."
Maria jotted down the van's
registration and called the police. The FBI was alerted and soon
there was a statewide all points bulletin put out for the apprehension
of the van and its occupants. The cops traced the number, establishing
that it belonged to a company called Urban Moving.
Police Chief John Schmidig
said : "We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white
Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the
side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State
Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up
and down."
By 4pm on the afternoon of
September 11, the van was spotted near New Jersey's Giants stadium.
A squad car pulled it over and inside were five men in their
20s. They were hustled out of the car with guns levelled at their
heads and handcuffed.
In the car was $4700 in cash,
a couple of foreign passports and a pair of box cutters - the
concealed Stanley Knife-type blades used by the 19 hijackers
who'd flown jetliners into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon
just hours before. There were also fresh pictures of the men
standing with the smouldering wreckage of the Twin Towers in
the background. One image showed a hand flicking a lighter in
front of the devastated buildings, like a fan at a pop concert.
The driver of the van then told the arresting officers : "We
are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems.
The Palestinians are the problem."
His name was Sivan Kurzberg.
The other four passengers were Kurzberg's brother Paul, Yaron
Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were dragged off
to prison and transferred out of the custody of the FBI's Criminal
Division and into the hands of their Foreign Counterintelligence
Section - the bureau's anti-espionage squad.
A warrant was issued for a
search of the Urban Moving premises in Weehawken in New Jersey.
Boxes of papers and computers were removed. The FBI questioned
the firm's Israeli owner, Dominik Otto Suter, but when agents
returned to re-interview him a few days later, he was gone. An
employee of Urban Moving said his co-workers had laughed about
the Manhattan attacks the day they happened. "I was in tears,"
the man said. "These guys were joking and that bothered
me. These guys were like, 'Now America knows what we go through.'"
Vince Cannistraro, former
chief of operations for counter-terrorism with the CIA, says
the red flag went up among investigators when it was discovered
that some of the Israelis' names were found in a search of the
national intelligence database. Cannistraro says many in the
US intelligence community believed that some of the Israelis
were working for Mossad and there was speculation over whether
Urban Moving had been "set up or exploited for the purpose
of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists".
This makes it clear that there
was no suggestion whatsoever from within American intelligence
that the Israelis were colluding with the 9/11 hijackers - simply
that the possibility remains that they knew the attacks were
going to happen, but effectively did nothing to help stop them.
After the owner vanished,
the offices of Urban Moving looked as if they'd been closed down
in a big hurry. Mobile phones were littered about, the office
phones were still connected and the property of at least a dozen
clients were stacked up in the warehouse. The owner had cleared
out his family home in New Jersey and returned to Israel.
Two weeks after their arrest,
the Israelis were still in detention, held on immigration charges.
Then a judge ruled that they should be deported. But the CIA
scuppered the deal and the five remained in custody for another
two months. Some went into solitary confinement, all underwent
two polygraph tests and at least one underwent up to seven lie
detector sessions before they were eventually deported at the
end of November 2001. Paul Kurzberg refused to take a lie detector
test for 10 weeks, but then failed it. His lawyer said he was
reluctant to take the test as he had once worked for Israeli
intelligence in another country.
Nevertheless, their lawyer,
Ram Horvitz, dismissed the allegations as "stupid and ridiculous".
Yet US government sources still maintained that the Israelis
were collecting information on the fundraising activities of
groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mark Regev, of the Israeli
embassy in Washington, would have none of that and he said the
allegations were "simply false". The men themselves
claimed they'd read about the World Trade Centre attacks on the
internet, couldn't see it from their office and went to the parking
lot for a better view. Their lawyers and the embassy say their
ghoulish and sinister celebrations as the Twin Towers blazed
and
thousands died were due to youthful foolishness.
The respected New York Jewish
newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that
it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from
a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies.
This is what he told The Forward : "The assessment was that
Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives
employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the
FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men
were released because they "did not know anything about
9/11".
Back in Israel, several of
the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One
of them made this remarkable comment : "The fact of the
matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror
daily. Our purpose was to document the event." But how can
you document an event unless you know it is going to happen ?
We are now deep in conspiracy
theory territory. But there is more than a little circumstantial
evidence to show that Mossad - whose motto is "By way of
deception, thou shalt do war" - was spying on Arab extremists
in the USA and may have known that September 11 was in the offing,
yet decided to withhold vital information from their American
counterparts which could have prevented the terror attacks.
Following September 11, 2001,
more than 60 Israelis were taken into custody under the Patriot
Act and immigration laws. One highly placed investigator told
Carl Cameron of Fox News that there were "tie-ins"
between the Israelis and September 11; the hint was clearly that
they'd gathered intelligence on the planned attacks but kept
it to themselves.
The Fox News source refused
to give details, saying : "Evidence linking these Israelis
to 9/11 is classified............."
...................................................................................................................................
From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:46 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Mel Gibson or RS/Frank
[Frank:]
Bradford,
I'm also having trouble understanding you.
Do you mean that MI (which? U.S.?) and Mossad were behind 9/11?
- or only with "aspects" of 9/11? If so, I would be
interested in seeing evidence of same, such that newspapers
such as the NY Times (Pentagon Papers) and the Washington Post
(Deep Throat), are covering it up.
[Bradford:]
http://paris.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=13259
Sunday Herald - 02 November
2003 Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into
the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ... Were they part of a
massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that
al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA ?
Neil Mackay investigates
Oh, Neil Mackay, sure, that explains everything.
Btw, any relation to Paul?
Frank
Beware
of Geeks Bearing Gifts
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