Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

 

From: dottie zold
Date: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:36 pm
Subject: Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

Dear Friends,

In my studies of the Kabbalah, with the Rabbi of Mount Olympus, of the Hassidic tradition, it occurs to me how absolutely assinine the whole Staudenmaier fantsasy of Steiner agaisnt Jews really is.

Obviously his atheistic leanings do not let him into the spiritual realities because he trusts they are not. But what he does not realize is how similar the streams of Anthroposophy and Judaism really are. He does not realize he could not possibly find a well studied Rabbi to confirm his accusations of anti-semitism by Dr. Steiners person n o matter how hard he tried. They would just have to read the works by Steiner and they would quickly come to realize a very learned man.

Once one begins to understand the tic toc synchrinicity of the similar teachings/understandings there is no way to find Dr. Steiner an anti-semite. It's just not possible. But Staudenmaier would not understand the inner workings of the Judaism stream because once again it is his very weak point, his achilles heel so to speak. Judaism and Anthroposophy have basically the very same, almost to a T, understanding of the universe. Their one difference of course would be Christ and that is a conversation that is being had all across the world not to mention in my Kabbalah class every Tuesday. And it is not considered anti-Semitic to disagree with the Rabbi. They love a good debate.

So, in my understanding the only people who can really buy this deceitful work of Staudenmaiers are the people most like him: people who do not believe in a spirit nature, and/or those looking for a quick soundbite with the no study. Now that is not to say they are good or bad people, and to me it really does not matter. What does matter is realizing that not even a studying Jew would give credence to the paper once realizing the cosmic realities spoken of by Dr. Steiner. So, if the Jews, who have had this horrible history with the Nazi regime, would not believe Steiner was anti-semite who would? Staudenmaier is preying on ignorance and fear and it is the worst way to try and prove your point. But then again maybe Mr. Staudenamier would think possibly the Jews do not know their own history. I wouldn't put it past him.

Sincerely,

Dottie 'realizing how truly ridiculous Staudenamier really is' Zold

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From: Mike Helsher
Date: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

Dottie writes:

<snip>

But then again maybe Mr. Staudenamier would think possibly the Jews do not know their own history. I wouldn't put it past him.

Mike:

Well, I wonder. He says repeatedly that RS's doctrines are "racist to the core" and yet RS couldn't recognize it. Like he just didn't understand....

What a goof ay? Stupid Steiner, just didn't get it. And because of his ignorance, we got the holocaust!

Wow, thank goodness for the really smart people, who aren't all codependent on all that stupid God crap, and can really figure all this stuff out.

Mike

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From: dottie zold
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:54 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

Mike:

Well, I wonder. He says repeatedly that RS's doctrines are "racist to the core" and yet RS couldn't recognize it. Like he just didn't understand....

Hey Mike,

I am not so sure I expressed my thoughts on this Judaism/Anthroposophy stream very well, however once one begins to study the Kabbalah from a Rabbi it becomes clear how similar the inner workings of these two streams are.

My point is just as Staudenmaier misinterprets Steiners work so viciously he would not get how the two works interweave. And in here he loses his credibility. But he doesn't realize it because spirit truth holds no reality for him. So it is easy to look at an outer work and declare what you want according to your own world view. But that does not make it true. And during a meditation in class it occured to me how unlearned Staudenmaiers claims really are. That not even a learned Rabbi would agree with him on such an important subject.

Sincerely,
Dottie

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From: Mike Helsher
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

I am not so sure I expressed my thoughts on this Judaism/Anthroposophy stream very well, however once one begins to study the Kabbalah from a Rabbi it becomes clear how similar the inner workings of these two streams are.

Mike:

Hi Dottie. I think you did express yourself quite clearly, and I love that you have investigated the Kabbalah and found similarities, and I get your point below. I think I was just being my typical facieses self and responding to your comment about "I wouldn't put it past him" to claim that the "Jews do not know their own history." It seems that nobody knows there history when it comes to his understanding of it. I think also that I was making fun of the fact that he says that Steiner couldn't see or understand that his world view was racist (and thus rotten) to the core. It seems a rather arrogant assumption on his part, considering RS's volumous literature output as compared to his own. And if anyone can point me to something that he has written that explains his motives and intent for trashing anything to do with RS, I would like to read it. If such a dissertation exists, I would hope that in it he would admit to his Darwinian/atheistic bias as a leading factor in his interpretation of Steiner's doctrines. That would be a credible and honest thing to do. Then I would have more respect for his work. But at this point, all I can see is a guy with an incredibly sharp intellect, that has a polemic axe to grind.

I think your statement below is worth repeating.

Thanks Dottie.

Truth and Love

Mike

My point is just as Staudenmaier misinterprets Steiners work so viciously he would not get how the two works interweave. And in here he loses his credibility. But he doesn't realize it because spirit truth holds no reality for him. So it is easy to look at an outer work and declare what you want according to your own world view. But that does not make it true. And during a meditation in class it occured to me how unlearned Staudenmaiers claims really are. That not even a learned Rabbi would agree with him on such an important subject.

Sincerely,
Dottie

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From: b m
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

I am reminded of Hitler's hatred for the jewish people, and the shadow hanging over his psyche of having jewish blood himself. Self-hatred denied by outwardly expressing it, trying to eliminate outside himself what he couldn't eliminate inside himself. The racism allegations against Anthroposophy are outrageous enough that I suspect there's something similar going on. Are the accusers themselves racist? Or are they afraid they may be? If so, a way (bad way) to deal with that would be to cry racism to everything and everybody, creating a smokescreen behind which they are able to hide, especially from themselves, their own inclinations.

Bryan

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From: dottie zold
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:03 am
Subject: Re: Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

Bryan wrote:

I am reminded of Hitler's hatred for the jewish people, and the shadow hanging over his psyche of having jewish blood himself. Self-hatred denied by outwardly expressing it, trying to eliminate outside himself what he couldn't eliminate inside himself. The racism allegations against Anthroposophy are outrageous enough that I suspect there's something similar going on. Are the accusers themselves racist? Or are they afraid they may be? If so, a way (bad way) to deal with that would be to cry racism to everything and everybody, creating a smokescreen behind which they are able to hide, especially from themselves, their own inclinations.

Hey Bryan and Mike,

I think you are right about this Bryan but I am not so sure it would specifically have to do with color racism versus another kind of racism: spirit racism. That may not make sense but the way I see it we are speaking of a man who swings far left and so far that he is similar to those on the extreme right: all God fearing versus there is no God and if you believe there is you are really an idiot. I think that is so interesting that the two opposite sides are almost identical. In his atheism its almost like he is spirit racist if that can be said about a person but alas I do not think it can unless I get to keep making up my own words and phrases:)

And who he caters to are those on the far extreme left and now to some parents caught in the middle that are readily willing to believe him without checking the facts of his paper out. And who would have time? If you have not read his paper you would not know to what extent he goes to flibber the details. And if you do deign to check his resources you are just about **** out of luck as either they are in German or they are mismatched throughout all of Steiners lectures. And his natural tongue is not German but suddenly he can interpret these German texts to such an extent that he recognizes where German speaking people do not understand their own language. I am recognizing a pattern here. Not to mention one that one of the lectures he points to does not even exist but he insists it does. Maybe the fairey ate it who knows.

His research reminds me of the way Diana says she sifts through posts because there are so many of them: she looks for the points she can rebut. Now that may be fine for Diana but for a man who is wishing and wanting to be held as an actual bonafide historian his work will be put down to revisionism of the worst kind: lies to suit ones own personal world view outlook.

Sincerely,
Dottie

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:01 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

I don't like this much, Bryan. Smacks of sinking to their level.

Frank

I am reminded of Hitler's hatred for the jewish people, and the shadow hanging over his psyche of having jewish blood himself. Self-hatred denied by outwardly expressing it, trying to eliminate outside himself what he couldn't eliminate inside himself. The racism allegations against Anthroposophy are outrageous enough that I suspect there's something similar going on. Are the accusers themselves racist? Or are they afraid they may be? If so, a way (bad way) to deal with that would be to cry racism to everything and everybody, creating a smokescreen behind which they are able to hide, especially from themselves, their own inclinations.

Bryan

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From: b m
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

Frank Thomas Smith wrote:

I don't like this much, Bryan. Smacks of sinking to their level.

Frank

But it isn't. If one reads Steiner carefully or observes the practical results of his ideas, one knows there's nothing racist about Anthoposophy. I sincerely don't understand where the critics get this idea from. I have to assume that they do it in good faith - in other words, they honestly believe this accusation. What I wrote was truly a possible explanation for this puzzling (for me) belief.

Bryan

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:22 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

Dear Friends,

In my studies of the Kabbalah, with the Rabbi of Mount Olympus, of the Hassidic tradition, it occurs to me how absolutely assinine the whole Staudenmaier fantsasy of Steiner agaisnt Jews really is.

Obviously his atheistic leanings do not let him into the spiritual realities because he trusts they are not. But what he does not realize is how similar the streams of Anthroposophy and Judaism really are. He does not realize he could not possibly find a well studied Rabbi to confirm his accusations of anti-semitism by Dr. Steiners person n o matter how hard he tried. They would just have to read the works by Steiner and they would quickly come to realize a very learned man.

Dottie:

The chief Rabbi of Berlin stated that the anti-semite accusations against Steiner are false.

Frank

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:41 am
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

There is on the web a complete study about "Steiner and Antisemitism" availabale on PDF (authors Lorenzo Ravagli and two other guys) that is able to enlight in the best possible way the entire matter.

A.

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From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:33 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews

There is on the web a complete study about "Steiner and Antisemitism" availabale on PDF (authors Lorenzo Ravagli and two other guys) that is able to enlight in the best possible way the entire matter.

A.

This is at: http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebooks.html

Frank

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From: dottie zold
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:32 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews


Andrea:

There is on the web a complete study about "Steiner and Antisemitism" availabale on PDF (authors Lorenzo Ravagli and two other guys) that is able to enlight in the best possible way the entire matter.

A.

Frank:

This is at: http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebooks.html

Hey Frank and Andrea,

There is also a book called Anthroposophia and Judaism available as well. I just bought it but I do not have the time to read it yet.

It's interesting to me how Staudenmaier bashes the students of Steiner as unknowledgable of the stream they study as well as a group that is unwilling to look at questions he has brought up regarding anti-semitism. He is unwilling to acknowledge that indeed the students and the organization have looked at what others thoght was a possibility and even high light it on their websites such as Frank has done.

It seems because we have not come to the same conclusion as he we are hiding our heads in the sand.

Which leads me to wonder what his thoughts are regarding the Rabbi Leader of Germany saying he found no evidence of ant-semitism in Steiners work. Maybe he will hold this Rabbi to be either a self hating Jew as he proclaimed for Jacob Lebowski or one who maybe who has not read the works. Anyone who knows a Rabbi knows the thought that goes into saying a thing. It does not come lightly unless of course they are testing our thinking/listening abilities like my dear Rabbi. Whew, he should have been in The Lord of The Rings he is so elf like. If I don't pay real close to his eyes and notice when they start to twinkle I may be hoodwinked once again.

Dottie

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