Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews
From: dottie zold
Date: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:36 pm
Subject: Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews
Dear Friends,
In my studies of the Kabbalah, with the Rabbi
of Mount Olympus, of the Hassidic tradition, it occurs to me
how absolutely assinine the whole Staudenmaier fantsasy of Steiner
agaisnt Jews really is.
Obviously his atheistic leanings do not let
him into the spiritual realities because he trusts they are not.
But what he does not realize is how similar the streams of Anthroposophy
and Judaism really are. He does not realize he could not possibly
find a well studied Rabbi to confirm his accusations of anti-semitism
by Dr. Steiners person n o matter how hard he tried. They would
just have to read the works by Steiner and they would quickly
come to realize a very learned man.
Once one begins to understand the tic toc
synchrinicity of the similar teachings/understandings there is
no way to find Dr. Steiner an anti-semite. It's just not possible.
But Staudenmaier would not understand the inner workings of the
Judaism stream because once again it is his very weak point,
his achilles heel so to speak. Judaism and Anthroposophy have
basically the very same, almost to a T, understanding of the
universe. Their one difference of course would be Christ and
that is a conversation that is being had all across the world
not to mention in my Kabbalah class every Tuesday. And it is
not considered anti-Semitic to disagree with the Rabbi. They
love a good debate.
So, in my understanding the only people who
can really buy this deceitful work of Staudenmaiers are the people
most like him: people who do not believe in a spirit nature,
and/or those looking for a quick soundbite with the no study.
Now that is not to say they are good or bad people, and to me
it really does not matter. What does matter is realizing that
not even a studying Jew would give credence to the paper once
realizing the cosmic realities spoken of by Dr. Steiner. So,
if the Jews, who have had this horrible history with the Nazi
regime, would not believe Steiner was anti-semite who would?
Staudenmaier is preying on ignorance and fear and it is the worst
way to try and prove your point. But then again maybe Mr. Staudenamier
would think possibly the Jews do not know their own history.
I wouldn't put it past him.
Sincerely,
Dottie 'realizing how truly ridiculous Staudenamier
really is' Zold
...................................................................................................................................
From: Mike Helsher
Date: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
Dottie writes:
<snip>
But then again maybe Mr. Staudenamier would
think possibly the Jews do not know their own history. I wouldn't
put it past him.
Mike:
Well, I wonder. He says repeatedly that RS's
doctrines are "racist to the core" and yet RS couldn't
recognize it. Like he just didn't understand....
What a goof ay? Stupid Steiner, just didn't
get it. And because of his ignorance, we got the holocaust!
Wow, thank goodness for the really smart people,
who aren't all codependent on all that stupid God crap, and can
really figure all this stuff out.
Mike
...................................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:54 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
Mike:
Well, I wonder. He says repeatedly that
RS's doctrines are "racist to the core" and yet RS
couldn't recognize it. Like he just didn't understand....
Hey Mike,
I am not so sure I expressed my thoughts on
this Judaism/Anthroposophy stream very well, however once one
begins to study the Kabbalah from a Rabbi it becomes clear how
similar the inner workings of these two streams are.
My point is just as Staudenmaier misinterprets
Steiners work so viciously he would not get how the two works
interweave. And in here he loses his credibility. But he doesn't
realize it because spirit truth holds no reality for him. So
it is easy to look at an outer work and declare what you want
according to your own world view. But that does not make it true.
And during a meditation in class it occured to me how unlearned
Staudenmaiers claims really are. That not even a learned Rabbi
would agree with him on such an important subject.
Sincerely,
Dottie
...................................................................................................................................
From: Mike Helsher
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
I am not so sure I expressed my thoughts
on this Judaism/Anthroposophy stream very well, however once
one begins to study the Kabbalah from a Rabbi it becomes clear
how similar the inner workings of these two streams are.
Mike:
Hi Dottie. I think you did express yourself
quite clearly, and I love that you have investigated the Kabbalah
and found similarities, and I get your point below. I think I
was just being my typical facieses self and responding to your
comment about "I wouldn't put it past him" to claim
that the "Jews do not know their own history." It seems
that nobody knows there history when it comes to his understanding
of it. I think also that I was making fun of the fact that he
says that Steiner couldn't see or understand that his world view
was racist (and thus rotten) to the core. It seems a rather arrogant
assumption on his part, considering RS's volumous literature
output as compared to his own. And if anyone can point me to
something that he has written that explains his motives and intent
for trashing anything to do with RS, I would like to read it.
If such a dissertation exists, I would hope that in it he would
admit to his Darwinian/atheistic bias as a leading factor in
his interpretation of Steiner's doctrines. That would be a credible
and honest thing to do. Then I would have more respect for his
work. But at this point, all I can see is a guy with an incredibly
sharp intellect, that has a polemic axe to grind.
I think your statement below is worth repeating.
Thanks Dottie.
Truth and Love
Mike
My point is just as Staudenmaier misinterprets
Steiners work so viciously he would not get how the two works
interweave. And in here he loses his credibility. But he doesn't
realize it because spirit truth holds no reality for him. So
it is easy to look at an outer work and declare what you want
according to your own world view. But that does not make it true.
And during a meditation in class it occured to me how unlearned
Staudenmaiers claims really are. That not even a learned Rabbi
would agree with him on such an important subject.
Sincerely,
Dottie
...................................................................................................................................
From: b m
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
I am reminded of Hitler's hatred for the jewish
people, and the shadow hanging over his psyche of having jewish
blood himself. Self-hatred denied by outwardly expressing it,
trying to eliminate outside himself what he couldn't eliminate
inside himself. The racism allegations against Anthroposophy
are outrageous enough that I suspect there's something similar
going on. Are the accusers themselves racist? Or are they afraid
they may be? If so, a way (bad way) to deal with that would be
to cry racism to everything and everybody, creating a smokescreen
behind which they are able to hide, especially from themselves,
their own inclinations.
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:03 am
Subject: Re: Steiner, Staudenmaier and the Jews
Bryan wrote:
I am reminded of Hitler's hatred for the
jewish people, and the shadow hanging over his psyche of having
jewish blood himself. Self-hatred denied by outwardly expressing
it, trying to eliminate outside himself what he couldn't eliminate
inside himself. The racism allegations against Anthroposophy
are outrageous enough that I suspect there's something similar
going on. Are the accusers themselves racist? Or are they afraid
they may be? If so, a way (bad way) to deal with that would be
to cry racism to everything and everybody, creating a smokescreen
behind which they are able to hide, especially from themselves,
their own inclinations.
Hey Bryan and Mike,
I think you are right about this Bryan but
I am not so sure it would specifically have to do with color
racism versus another kind of racism: spirit racism. That may
not make sense but the way I see it we are speaking of a man
who swings far left and so far that he is similar to those on
the extreme right: all God fearing versus there is no God and
if you believe there is you are really an idiot. I think that
is so interesting that the two opposite sides are almost identical.
In his atheism its almost like he is spirit racist if that can
be said about a person but alas I do not think it can unless
I get to keep making up my own words and phrases:)
And who he caters to are those on the far
extreme left and now to some parents caught in the middle that
are readily willing to believe him without checking the facts
of his paper out. And who would have time? If you have not read
his paper you would not know to what extent he goes to flibber
the details. And if you do deign to check his resources you are
just about **** out of luck as either they are in German or they
are mismatched throughout all of Steiners lectures. And his natural
tongue is not German but suddenly he can interpret these German
texts to such an extent that he recognizes where German speaking
people do not understand their own language. I am recognizing
a pattern here. Not to mention one that one of the lectures he
points to does not even exist but he insists it does. Maybe the
fairey ate it who knows.
His research reminds me of the way Diana says
she sifts through posts because there are so many of them: she
looks for the points she can rebut. Now that may be fine for
Diana but for a man who is wishing and wanting to be held as
an actual bonafide historian his work will be put down to revisionism
of the worst kind: lies to suit ones own personal world view
outlook.
Sincerely,
Dottie
...................................................................................................................................
From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:01 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
I don't like this much, Bryan. Smacks of sinking
to their level.
Frank
I am reminded of Hitler's hatred for the
jewish people, and the shadow hanging over his psyche of having
jewish blood himself. Self-hatred denied by outwardly expressing
it, trying to eliminate outside himself what he couldn't eliminate
inside himself. The racism allegations against Anthroposophy
are outrageous enough that I suspect there's something similar
going on. Are the accusers themselves racist? Or are they afraid
they may be? If so, a way (bad way) to deal with that would be
to cry racism to everything and everybody, creating a smokescreen
behind which they are able to hide, especially from themselves,
their own inclinations.
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: b m
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
Frank Thomas Smith wrote:
I don't like this much, Bryan. Smacks of
sinking to their level.
Frank
But it isn't. If one reads Steiner carefully
or observes the practical results of his ideas, one knows there's
nothing racist about Anthoposophy. I sincerely don't understand
where the critics get this idea from. I have to assume that they
do it in good faith - in other words, they honestly believe this
accusation. What I wrote was truly a possible explanation for
this puzzling (for me) belief.
Bryan
...................................................................................................................................
From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:22 pm
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
Dear Friends,
In my studies of the Kabbalah, with the
Rabbi of Mount Olympus, of the Hassidic tradition, it occurs
to me how absolutely assinine the whole Staudenmaier fantsasy
of Steiner agaisnt Jews really is.
Obviously his atheistic leanings do not
let him into the spiritual realities because he trusts they are
not. But what he does not realize is how similar the streams
of Anthroposophy and Judaism really are. He does not realize
he could not possibly find a well studied Rabbi to confirm his
accusations of anti-semitism by Dr. Steiners person n o matter
how hard he tried. They would just have to read the works by
Steiner and they would quickly come to realize a very learned
man.
Dottie:
The chief Rabbi of Berlin stated that the
anti-semite accusations against Steiner are false.
Frank
...................................................................................................................................
From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:41 am
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
There is on the web a complete study about
"Steiner and Antisemitism" availabale on PDF (authors
Lorenzo Ravagli and two other guys) that is able to enlight in
the best possible way the entire matter.
A.
...................................................................................................................................
From: Frank Thomas Smith
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:33 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
There is on the web a complete study about
"Steiner and Antisemitism" availabale on PDF (authors
Lorenzo Ravagli and two other guys) that is able to enlight in
the best possible way the entire matter.
A.
This is at: http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebooks.html
Frank
...................................................................................................................................
From: dottie zold
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:32 am
Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Steiner, Staudenmaier and
the Jews
Andrea:
There is on the web a complete study about
"Steiner and Antisemitism" availabale on PDF (authors
Lorenzo Ravagli and two other guys) that is able to enlight in
the best possible way the entire matter.
A.
Frank:
This is at: http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebooks.html
Hey Frank and Andrea,
There is also a book called Anthroposophia
and Judaism available as well. I just bought it but I do not
have the time to read it yet.
It's interesting to me how Staudenmaier bashes
the students of Steiner as unknowledgable of the stream they
study as well as a group that is unwilling to look at questions
he has brought up regarding anti-semitism. He is unwilling to
acknowledge that indeed the students and the organization have
looked at what others thoght was a possibility and even high
light it on their websites such as Frank has done.
It seems because we have not come to the same
conclusion as he we are hiding our heads in the sand.
Which leads me to wonder what his thoughts
are regarding the Rabbi Leader of Germany saying he found no
evidence of ant-semitism in Steiners work. Maybe he will hold
this Rabbi to be either a self hating Jew as he proclaimed for
Jacob Lebowski or one who maybe who has not read the works. Anyone
who knows a Rabbi knows the thought that goes into saying a thing.
It does not come lightly unless of course they are testing our
thinking/listening abilities like my dear Rabbi. Whew, he should
have been in The Lord of The Rings he is so elf like. If I don't
pay real close to his eyes and notice when they start to twinkle
I may be hoodwinked once again.
Dottie
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