Morality and Racism

PS as non serious history forger and mind gambler - a reminder

 

From: Sune Nordwall
Date: Sat Mar 6, 2004 5:52 pm
Subject: PS as non serious history forger and mind gambler - a reminder

PS wrote:

Christine:

Therefore, there would have to be more passages besides those four that you can directly quote to support your statement that "the preponderance of his work on race" IS racist.

PS:

Yes, of course. There are dozens of them.

Christine

Produce those additional passages.

PS:

I've 'produced' quite a few of them already, and pointed them out to you before. I once again recommend you visit the openwaldorf site, where I 'produced' many such passages. You'll find it here:

http://pub21.ezboard.com/fopenwaldorffrm7.showMessageRange?topicID=10.topic&start=1&stop=20

Me; SN:

Like with the very first noticeable start of PS career as solo writer on anthroposophy; see http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/PS/Staudenmaier.html PS - for some reason - once again starts with a lie.

PS writes as first sentence :

I would like to provide a series of excerpts from Rudolf Steiner's voluminous writings and lectures on race.

The writings are not voluminous, neither are his lectures on race.

The so called "root race theory" is a theosophical, not an anthroposophical concept. As PS well knows, RS for example in December 1909 http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/Steiner/GA117-1909-12-04.htm pointed out, commented on and described the root race and sub race theory of Theosophy as a child disease of the Theosophical movement, and expressing the view that the concept of race ceases to have any meaning/importance specifically in our time.

In writing and in 1910 as "Occult Science - an Outline", publishing how he understood the origin and evolution of humanity from the time it; all of us, regardless of "race" in any sense of the word, originated with the beings that in the Jewish-Christian tradition are referred to as (I think) Thrones far in the past, Steiner completely leaves behind the racist way of describing human evolution found in Theosophy in terms or "root races" and "sub races of root races".

A search at elib tells he not once refers to "Aryan" or "Aryans" as the seemingly big hangup of PS, in this his main anthroposophical work on the origin and development of humanity, neither in relation to human post glacial cultural development, nor in relation to the present cultural epoch developing from the Middle Ages in the view of Steiner. The term "occult" in the context also of course does not mean "secret" or meant only for an initiated elite, as the book was published and available for everyone to read, but with the meaning "not immediately obvious".

As http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/comments1.htm tells, the theosophical concept "root race", coming out of the obsession with the concept of "race" at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century, in a similar way that PS seems obsessed with it today in relation to anthroposophy, refers to the stages in the development of our present solar system. Only the part of it that refers to "sub races of Atlantis" is a race concept in a more proper sense of the word.

While Steiner mostly did not relate his comments on the evolution of mankind to geological concepts or paleontological findings, he late in life, in discussions 1919 with teachers at the first Waldorf school commented that evolution during what could be called "Atlantean times" refers to human evolution during the time of Cenozoic, that is Tertiary and Quaternary, the time of the mammals in evolution.

That means that the concept "sub races of Atlantis" in Steiner's view refers to the successive human forms during Tertiary and Quaternary up to the end of Pleistocene. Of these forms, the human forms proper probably only during the second half of "Atlantean" time started to become dense enough to start to leave the paleontological traces that still can be found today, with the paleontological remains mainly up to then constituting branched off human forms.

As to the reference to "lower and "higher" racial forms at one point in Knowledge of Higher Worlds, it was made at a time (the early part of the theosophical period) when RS also wrote what was later published as "Cosmic Memory" with its description of the "sub races of Atlantis". It indicates that the "lower" and "higher" racial forms in question refers to the successive human forms during Cenozoic, and not to "races" in the sense of the "five races of humanity".

As to the concept "race" in the sense of what from the end of the 18th century was understood to be the "five races of humanity", and that RS considered to be an abnormal form of "race" formation in contrast to the successive human forms from the beginning of Tertiary up to the end of Pleistocene, meaning all "races" including the Caucasians, only five of the published c. 3.000 lectures by Steiner have "race" in that sense as their theme.

The Dutch commission investigating the appearance of comments by Steiner related to this meaning of the concept "race" found in total some 245 such comments in passing in discussions of other issues. In total, the length of the quotes given in the preliminary report of the Commission indicates that the 245 quotes described in the final report constitute c. 2 promille of the published works by Steiner.

Trying to judge to what extent a number of them could be considered to be "racist" in relation to present day sensitive Dutch legislation on discrimination, the Commission found that 16 of the 245 comments probably would be considered discriminatory, if expressed today by someone in public on his or her own responsibility in the Netherlands today, c. 80-100 years after they were made in a very much other historical and cultural context; http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/Holland/Dutch-FinalPressSummary.htm

Or as PS with his repeated manipulative/sloppy "precision" writes as self proclaimed "historical scholar": "60", in one article describing them at the site of PLANS.

The sixteen comments of some 80-100 years ago by Steiner, in a culture permeated by thinking about people in terms of "race" and "races", judging them from the perspective of present day sensitive Dutch legislation on discrimination, constitute in the order of 12 of the c. 89.000 pages of the published works by Steiner, or 0,13 promille of the published works by Steiner, most of them not corrected transcripts of lectures.

Five of the 16 comments were made during one humorous ad hoc morning lecture to construction workers at Goetheanum, with one of them on "mulattos" rooted in the Aristotelian concept of heredity on the substance of the offspring as coming from the maternal side and with the form coming from the paternal side.

One perspective on heredity that Steiner according to my memory developed was that (a smaller or larger part of) the qualities of the biological father were determining the phenotype of the child, maybe not primarily as something "mechanically" determined by the genotype, but via the inner picture of the biological father that the mother to be had of the father.

The lighthearted joke in the ad hoc morning lecture to the construction workers on mulattos being born by women reading novels like the one by a René Maran from 1921 having as title "Batouala. Veritable roman négre" (Batouala - a true negro novel) probably referred to in the lecture, with its description of ecstatic initiation dances by Africans for excited European bourgeois women I think needs to be seen out of this context.

As to the untrue but of course - as probably very much intended - selling fairy tale by PS depicting RS as a proto nazi Aryan supremacist, that PS has made into the foundation stone of his writings on RS and anthroposophy (http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/PS/Staudenmaier.html), it continues to be republished repeatedly with PS not caring very much about it.

One of the latest examples possibly is here in Sweden, where it - again - has been republished and defended by a missionary secular humanist association in November last year as part of an alleged "scientific" description and criticism of anthroposophy, spread to mass media, starting with a slightly edited version of the badly researched and superficially rhetorical paper by Sven Ove Hansson that can be found in its main part in a commented form at http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/Hansson-commented.htm

It all - like very much everything PS has written and writes to this day on anthroposophy - points to that what he writes very much purely constitutes a superficial rhetorical play with words, below the surface just playing games with peoples minds, and having little to do with a search for truth in more than a superficial sense.

He does not seem to understand that his writings on anthroposophy the last 4 years completely has deprived him of any credibility whatsoever as serious writer and commentator on anthroposophy, other than as demagogue.

Sune

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Sun Mar 7, 2004 8:40 am
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] PS as non serious history forger and mind gambler - a reminder

----- Original Message -----

[Sune:]

writings are not voluminous, neither are his lectures on race.

The so called "root race theory" is a theosophical, not an anthroposophical concept. As PS well knows, RS for example in December 1909 http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/Steiner/GA117-1909-12-04.htm pointed out, commented on and described the root race and sub race theory of Theosophy as a child disease of the Theosophical movement, and expressing the view that the concept of race ceases to have any meaning/importance specifically in our time.

In writing and in 1910 as "Occult Science - an Outline", publishing how he understood the origin and evolution of humanity from the time it; all of us, regardless of "race" in any sense of the word, originated with the beings that in the Jewish-Christian tradition are referred to as (I think) Thrones far in the past, Steiner completely leaves behind the racist way of describing human evolution found in Theosophy in terms or "root races" and "sub races of root races"

Hi, Sune and all goodwill listmates,

If I can add my dime here.

RS went so in deep into Mankind and Universe's Evolution to be able to picture, between 1908 and 1911 several fact based also from the standpoint of the Spiritual Hierarchial Beings themselves , including the five topic lectures about "Evolution From the Standpoint of Reality" held in Berlin in Fall-Winter 1911.

The fact that, during his earthly mission, he was able to pass nonstop from those highest standpoints to the practical help for the most "human" needs possible, as farming or giving advice to everyone for each everyday life problem, shows, in itself, what really means that "Anthroposphy is a path to link the Spiritual inside the Universe to the Spiritual inside Man".

Man..... with no other specification.

Who is unable to grasp this little simple fact and goes on and on to spread falsehoods about "Steiner's racism" is really talking of "something else" and not of Anthroposophy. He can be simply nuts, or, in the Cthulu- like case we are looking at here in this list he must be a professional liar performing his dirty job of defamation.

Andrea

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From: eyecueco
Date: Sun Mar 7, 2004 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: PS as non serious history forger and mind gamble

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, VALENTINA BRUNETTI wrote:

Who is unable to grasp this little simple fact and goes on and on to spread falsehoods about "Steiner's racism" is really talking of "something else" and not of Anthroposophy.

So on the mark, Andrea, so precicely on the mark, "something else", indeed!

I have concluded that it is not possible to have a normal exchange of ideas or discussion with Peter, and that if I am going to come to any level of understanding about what is behind his allegations of Steiner being a racist and anti-Semitic then understanding will have to come elsewhere than direct communication with him. I decided to move to studying more closely what can know about Peter,i.e., his communist affiliations and activities, including his writings and travels.

I started my inquiry by trying to come to an understanding about the term "Libertarian Communism", which seemed like an oxymoron to me. and immediately found that others agree, lol, in fact, there is even a site with into that reads: "Isn't libertarian socialism an oxymorron?").

I've not had time to read much in the past few days, but, did get far enough to to understand that Libertarian Communism, (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist and from now on referred to as lc).

lcs also call themselves anarchists because they, too, are opposed to capitalism and the state and believe the working class must organize to overthrow capitalism via revolution for something they call "direct democracy".

lcs (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist), desire to replace current democratic process with an egalitarian system they call "direct democracy", the implementation of which would appear to be very much up in the air, and a source of much discussion and disagreement. There as there are at least three other similar movements in competition with lcs (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist) for the hearts, minds of the working classes:
- council communism,
- autonomism (autonomist marxism)
- Situationist International.

Now, the 'lc' (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist) will tell you that their small 'c' communism differs from Marx and Lenin, which are "the bastard 'red fascists' who along wth Stalin, Mao and Trotsky have tried to steal, their ideas and buzz words". They aren't happy with the Libertarian political party, either.

The 'lc' (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist) believes that "management of the common good is an absolutely necessary" and that an egalitarian system will bring utopia to mankind who will flourish through self-emancipation,with workers councils that will reward and or withhold on the principal, "From each according to their means, to each according to their needs."

Enough for now, as there is a lot to understand, but, I now understand that THREE-FOLD SOCIAL ORDERING IS A THREAT TO THIS AGENDA of lc (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist). Everywhere efforts at three-folding succeeds, is a loss to them. This, I believe is the "something else" behind the "Steiner is a racist and anti-Semitic" campaign.

Paulina

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From: holderlin66
Date: Sun Mar 7, 2004 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: PS as non serious history forger and mind gamble

eyecueco

Everywhere efforts at three-folding succeeds, is a loss to them. This, I believe is the "something else" behind the "Steiner is a racist and anti-Semitic" campaign.

Paulina

Yikes! I'm sure we'll all be proved wrong about that! (NOT!)

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From: VALENTINA BRUNETTI
Date: Mon Mar 8, 2004 1:40 am
Subject: R: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: PS as non serious history forger and mind gamble

----- Original Message ----- >

started my inquiry by trying to come to an understanding

A THREAT TO THIS AGENDA of lc (small 'l' for libertarian, small 'c' for communist). Everywhere efforts at three-folding succeeds, is a loss to them. This, I believe is the "something else" behind the "Steiner is a racist and anti-Semitic" campaign.

Paulina

Dear Paulina,

we have also to separate PS's own personal agenda from the general worldwide campaign carried on especially against "Anthro-daughters". PS was probably moved by some troubles inside the Green German Party, (I'm myself inside this kind of issues into the Italian Ecologist Movement). Inside German Greens there was a kind of "attack" of the "anarco-marxist" wing against the "eco-mystical " one (Steiner, a basic asset for many European Eco-guys depicted as an "eco-fascist", the hoax of a "Steinerite-wing" inside Nazi party and so on) since 1999 and , we all know how goodwil anthropop like Nordvall,Waage or Ravagli or the people here on AT replied and are still keeping on to reply to this defamation plot. ( I see that Nyarlathotep's child is no more able to reply to many messages, especially to Bradford's ones). By those political events PS got the opportunity to link his own twisted, lovecraftian biographic gestures with an opportunity of pickin'up money and "fama".

The other side of the matter is the general context of the attacks agaisnt Steiner and Anthropos-Sophia. Sure Waldorf, Byo-farming, Threefolders (think of Perlas or Ben Aharon) are really "smoke in the eyes" for lots of powers and most of all for the Ahrimanic puppeteers who are trying to pervert every Mankind's Evolution struggling against every each "drop" able to heal the Earth ! Anyway: we know also that Steiner and his Michaelian creature were "main targets" for the Hindrancers from the beginning.......... And since we know also to have ourselves been given of every possible mean to counter those attacks. there is no time for fear or discouragement, dosen't it ?

 

A.

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From: holderlin66
Date: Mon Mar 8, 2004 10:41 am
Subject: Re: PS as non serious history forger and mind gamble

eyecueco wrote

Everywhere efforts at three-folding succeeds, is a loss to them. This, I believe is the "something else" behind the "Steiner is a racist and anti-Semitic" campaign.

Paulina

Yikes! I'm sure we'll all be proved wrong about that! (NOT!)

Yikes! I'm sure we'll all be proved wrong about that! (NOT!)

Notes

1. Adolf Hitler writes about Rudolf Steiner and Social Three-folding, 1921

"In the course of the London affair, there gradually emerged such mysterious circumstances that it has become not only expedient but indeed necessary to look somewhat more closely at this Minister (Simons), the intimate friend of the Gnostic and Anthroposophist Rudolf Steiner, follower of Three-folding the Social Organism and whatever all these Jewish methods of destroying the normal frame of mind of the people are called: to see whether that mindless face, as Lloyd George described it, is really just the result of a deficient intellect, or if it is the mask behind which something else is concealed . . . (he continues with a protest against Simon's political activity, and particularly the movement to disarm the German people) . . . And who is the driving force behind all this devilishness? The Jew! Friend of Doctor Rudolf Steiner, the friend of Simons, the 'mindless' . . ."

Adolf Hitler, Staatsmaenner ode Nationalverbrecher ("Men of the State or National Criminals"), in Voelkischer Beobachter, 35.Jg., 15 March 1921, S.2. (original German text)

http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/comments/articles/Werner1.htm

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:33 am
Subject: Direct Democracy (was: PS as non serious...)

At 01:11 08.03.2004, Paulina wrote:

lcs also call themselves anarchists because they, too, are opposed to capitalism and the state and believe the working class must organize to overthrow capitalism via revolution for something they call "direct democracy".

The question is whether or not they know what they're talking about. Here is Leonard Cohen's understanding of direct democracy:

Democracy
by Leonard Cohen

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

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From: holderlin66
Date: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: Direct Democracy

Tarjei Straume wrote:

It's coming to America first,

Bradford, deeply moved;

No, it wanted to land in Munich first. In Munich first. It wanted to set up the world of the incoming AnthroSophiac Unfallen cognition of the I AM and illuminate all the mysteries, so that the I AM would have Eyes to See and Ears to hear. But the Angels fought in dogfights in the cowering skies.

Oh sit back in your study, and rant on antisemitism and hate,
And you are no historian you're just ahriman's latest bait.
Fishin in the Fallen, where Adam dropped the torch,
It was picked up by this Fellow Jesus,
And placed again on Solomons porch.

It would have glowed from Munich, called the "House of the Word".
It would have changed the U.N., the Eyes of Men, who ever heard.
Such a different fate, was the world with impending hope,
A Messerschmitt battle in the Heavens,
With Sophia's fitted for the hangman's rope.

http://www.retrosellers.com/features61.htm

(Designed by Willy Messerschmitt in 1934, and ironically originally powered by a Rolls-Royce Kestrel V engine, the Me109 won a fighter competition in October 1935, although it wouldn't have won any beauty contest. The Messerschmitt had a very cramped cockpit, visibility was poor, the undercarriage was notoriously fragile and the plane was harder to fly than either of the main British fighters. However, at altitude it performed better than both of its main opponents and overall had similar firepower and capabilities.)

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1:13255287&refid=ink_overture_hlth

Tarjei adds more wisdom to the bonfire of vanities:

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Bradford takes out Sting;

We don't want crusty, dried up history, with cocktails of laced lies. We want history where you see the vision of what was here and what is still here and what truly was being fought and won in those bloody trenches and in the Air over Britain and Germany as 1933 turned to 1945 and the belching prayer of Fear from the 33rd President of the U.S., flung the door open, based on the last Einstein capacity for abstract thought, Abrahams thinking intuition, brought us in one full 12 year (Bryan "Tempest" thanks) cycle to the "Church of the Unfallen Light". Now we kneel and pray, kneel and pray against the I AM and the Greater Light that is now around us.

But Cohen was describing the Church of the descending AnthroSophic, Unfallen Garment of the new I AM. This will not come without conscious participation in the I AM and I AM trained cognition. This is what scares the crap out of those clinging to racial lies, disguised as helpful history. The dazzling Garment of Sophia, (the Love of Wisdom) is just out of the their grasp, and like the very cringing Ahrimanic, Gollum nature, they wants THE PRECIOUSSSSS. But this precious is not about the shadow it is about the New Memory, Consciousness and Cognition of the new I AM community of humanity or its bitter rejection.

It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Again, Exact Sensorial Phantasy, the Living I AM and the Poets who declare what the shrivelled mind negates.

Only a Pawn in Their Game
by Bob Dylan

A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers' blood.
A finger fired the trigger to his name.
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed
He's only a pawn in their game.

A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they
explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks,
And the hoof beats pound in his brain.
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught.
They lowered him down as a king.
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He'll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game.

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Direct Democracy (was: PS as non serious...)

Leonard Cohen sings:

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;

Leonard Cohen is obviously a racist, singing about races like that :)

Tarjei

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From: Tarjei Straume
Date: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:20 pm
Subject: Leonard Cohen (was: Direct Democracy)

At 21:23 11.03.2004, Bradford wrote:

But Cohen was describing the Church of the descending AnthroSophic, Unfallen Garment of the new I AM. This will not come without conscious participation in the I AM and I AM trained cognition. This is what scares the crap out of those clinging to racial lies, disguised as helpful history.

When my enthusiasm for Jewish art and wisdom and poetry is seen as disturbing and suspect by Diana because those ominous and dangerous spiritual elements are involved, I give up. The hyenas or goblins or whatever they are can call me anything they like; I don't give a damn, and I never have. Dylan and Cohen are the Jewish prophets of the Michael Age. Michael was the Archangel for the Hebrews in Old Testament times, and he knows what mission the Jews have today. Dylan and Cohen, so mutually complimentary and fundamentally different at the same time. Dylan whose wisdom flows out of him like an eternal river that never dries up, Cohen who consciously struggles to make his poetry as truthful as he can muster with all his strength and effort. Salvation comes from the Jews, and to the Jew first and then the Gentile also, said Paul.

See the 1991 article about Dylan, "Tangled Up in Jews" (first published in "Washington Jewish Week":

http://www.radiohazak.com/Tangled.html

Nobody has lifted the legendary story of Joan of Arc to such awesome, breath-taking spiritual heights of Michaelic mythology like Leonard Cohen. Pondering the mystery of the tension between sexual lust on the one side and the longing for spiritual purity on the other in an openhearted and unscrupulously honest manner, Leonard Cohen reaches the very peak of his achievement when he sings about Joan of Arc. In other songs, he is prone to use ice and snow as a symbol of purification and holiness; in songs like "Joan of Arc", salvation is achieved through the horrible yet cleansing and elevating ordeal of fire.

(Both these songs were released in 1971 on the album "Songs of Love and Hate".)

Joan of Arc
by Leonard Cohen

La la la la la la...

Now the flames they followed Joan of Arc
As she came riding through the dark;
No moon to keep her armour bright,
And no man to get her through this dark, this very smoky night.

She said, "I'm tired of the war,
I want the kind of work I had before,
With a wedding dress, something white
To wear upon swollen appetite."

La la la la la la...

Well I'm glad to..., to hear you talk this way,
You see I've watched you riding almost every single day
And there's something in me just yearns to win
Such a very cold and such a very lonesome heroine.

"Well then, who are you?" she sternly spoke
To the one beneath the smoke.
"Why, I'm..., I'm fire," he replied,
"And I love your solitude, oh how I love your sense of pride."

La la la la la la...
"Well then fire, make your body cold,
I'm gonna give you mine to hold,"
Saying this she climbed inside
To be his one, to be his only bride.

It was deep into his fiery heart
He took the dust of our Joan of Arc,
And high above all of these assembled wedding guests
He hung the ashes of her very lovely wedding dress.

La la la la la la...

It was deep deep into his fiery heart
He took the dust of our precious Joan of Arc,
Then she clearly, she clearly understood
If..., if he was fire, woah she must be wood.

I saw her wince, I saw her cry,
Saw the glory in her eye.
Myself I long..., I long for love and light,
But must it come so cruel, and must it..., must it be so very bright?

La la la la la la...


Last Year's Man
by Leonard Cohen

The rain falls down on last year's man,
that's a jew's harp on the table,
that's a crayon in his hand.
And the corners of the blueprint are ruined since they rolled
far past the stems of thumbtacks
that still throw shadows on the wood.
And the skylight is like skin for a drum I'll never mend
and all the rain falls down amen
on the works of last year's man.
I met a lady, she was playing with her soldiers in the dark
oh one by one she had to tell them
that her name was Joan of Arc.
I was in that army, yes I stayed a little while;
I want to thank you, Joan of Arc,
for treating me so well.
And though I wear a uniform I was not born to fight;
all these wounded boys you lie beside,
goodnight, my friends, goodnight.

I came upon a wedding that old families had contrived;
Bethlehem the bridegroom,
Babylon the bride.
Great Babylon was naked, oh she stood there trembling for me,
and Bethlehem inflamed us both
like the shy one at some orgy.
And when we fell together all our flesh was like a veil
that I had to draw aside to see
the serpent eat its tail.

Some women wait for Jesus, and some women wait for Cain
so I hang upon my altar
and I hoist my axe again.
And I take the one who finds me back to where it all began
when Jesus was the honeymoon
and Cain was just the man.
And we read from pleasant Bibles that are bound in blood and skin
that the wilderness is gathering
all its children back again.

The rain falls down on last year's man,
an hour has gone by
and he has not moved his hand.
But everything will happen if he only gives the word;
the lovers will rise up
and the mountains touch the ground.
But the skylight is like skin for a drum I'll never mend
and all the rain falls down amen
on the works of last year's man.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/

...................................................................................................................................

From: dottie zold
Date: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:49 pm
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Direct Democracy (was: PS as non serious...)

--- Tarjei:

Leonard Cohen sings:

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;

Leonard Cohen is obviously a racist, singing about races like that :)

If you 'look' at the word long enough it just might be. I think the comment you made in another post to this point of how Peter comes to a thing is right on.

d

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