Hitler's Occultism

A discussion about Adolf Hitler's attitude towards Christianity.

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From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:11:37 -0700

Here's an excerpt from an article I just read at the Free Inquiry magazine website. Free Inquiry is a publication of the Council for Secular Humanism, and the article is a response to preachers and politicians who claim that Hitler was an atheist.

<begin quote>

Hitler was a Roman Catholic, baptized into that religio-political institution as an infant in Austria. He became a communicant and an altar boy in his youth and was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" in that church. Its worst doctrines never left him. He was steeped in its liturgy, which contained the words "perfidious jew." This hateful statement was not removed until 1961. "Perfidy" means treachery.

In his day, hatred of Jews was the norm. In great measure it was sponsored by by two major religions of Germany, Catholicism, and Lutheranism. He greatly admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews. Luther condemned the Catholic Church for its pretensions and corruption, but he supported the centuries of papal pogroms against the Jews. Luther said, "The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves," and "We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them." "Ungodly wretches" he called the Jews in his book Table Talk.

Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf, "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.

Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church, and the church never left him.

<end quote>

I suspect that Christianity had much, much more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy or Theosophy.

Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carbonata descendum pantorum."
(A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.)

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From: John & Wendy Morehead
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:37:19

At 09:11 AM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote:

I suspect that Christianity had much, much more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy or Theosophy.

Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold Christianity responsible for the religious foundation for National Socialism? It was either the Discovery Channel or The Learning Channel that ran a fascinating documentary for two hours on the occultic influences on Hitler and National Socialism, not orthodox Christianity, which unfortunately was largely silent while Hitler rose to power and carried on his atrocities. I'll dig up the book title and author, but there was a fascinating scholarly treatment on Hitler and the occult as well. To sum up, there was a far greater influence of the occult and a revival of ancient Aryan religion on Hitler, than orthodox Christianity. But note that I am *not* saying that all occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler, or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety of influences to justify their personal evil.

John Morehead

=========================
John W. Morehead
Executive Vice President
TruthQuest Institute
P.O. Box 227
Loomis, CA 95650

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From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:04:51 -0700

On 10 May 99, at 11:37, John & Wendy Morehead wrote:

At 09:11 AM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote:

I suspect that Christianity had much, much more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy or Theosophy.

Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold Christianity responsible for the religious foundation for National Socialism?

No. I said that I suspected that Christianity had more influence than Anthroposophy or Theosophy, but that's saying practically nothing, since I doubt that Anthroposophy or Theosophy had much influence at all.

But note that I am *not* saying that all occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler, or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety of influences to justify their personal evil.

My point exactly. The fact that someone uses the Bible to justify slavery, or the oppression of homosexuals or Jews, does not mean that Christianity is to blame for those wrongs. By the same token, though, the fact that Hitler and his cronies may have gained some comfort from the Theosophical/Anthroposophical view of history does not mean that those doctrines caused or contributed to the Holocaust.

If you conduct a witch hunt, you'll find witches to burn.

Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carbonata descendum pantorum."
(A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.)

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From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:03:24 +0200

Steve, something doesn't compute here about Hitler's affirmation of Catholicism. Hitler wanted to eradicate Christianity completely, and the only Bible was to be "Mein Kampf". Alfred Rosenberg was the chief architect behind the permanent annihalition of Christianity, and Heinrich Himmler promised to take care of the public execution of the Pope as soon as the war was won.

Hitler hated Christianity because he saw it as ideological competition. So I'm not inclined to believe the Catholic story at first hearing. I suspect the humanists have picked up a spurious rumor to get some extra Nazi-juice on Christianity - until someone can give me the documented source of Hitler's alleged quote.

Cheers

Tarjei Straume

Greetings from Uncle Taz

http://www.uncletaz.com/

Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism, Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality, death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.

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From: John & Wendy Morehead
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:43:02

At 08:03 PM 5/10/99 +0200, you wrote:

Hitler hated Christianity because he saw it as ideological competition. So I'm not inclined to believe the Catholic story at first hearing. I suspect the humanists have picked up a spurious rumor to get some extra Nazi-juice on Christianity - until someone can give me the documented source of Hitler's alleged quote.

I am making another mental note. I have found another area where Tarjei and I agree. :)

Best,

JOhn

=========================
John W. Morehead
Executive Vice President
TruthQuest Institute
P.O. Box 227
Loomis, CA 95650

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From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:21:56 +0200

John Morehead wrote:

Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold Christianity responsible for the religious foundation for National Socialism? It was either the Discovery Channel or The Learning Channel that ran a fascinating documentary for two hours on the occultic influences on Hitler and National Socialism, not orthodox Christianity, which unfortunately was largely silent while Hitler rose to power and carried on his atrocities. I'll dig up the book title and author, but there was a fascinating scholarly treatment on Hitler and the occult as well. To sum up, there was a far greater influence of the occult and a revival of ancient Aryan religion on Hitler, than orthodox Christianity. But note that I am *not* saying that all occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler, or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety of influences to justify their personal evil.

Heinrich Himmler built his SS (Schutzstaffel) on the pattern of the Jesuit Order. This parallell (between SS and Jesuits) was very comprehensive and was not confined to occult methodology. Oaths and rituals, internal priesthoods, declarations of faith to the Reich, the Führer and God - all this was part of SS. They also had their own catechism. "Why do we believe in Germany and the Führer?" asked the catechism. Answer: "Because we believe in God, we believe in Germany that He created in His world, and in the Führer whom he has sent us."

The Nazis made a thorough investigation of all religious and occult traditions and organizations, leaving no stone unturned. All Nazi-leaders, with the exception of Goebbels, were deeply involved in some ocult or magical practice or other. Hitler himself must be regarded as a very capable occultist who had a marked paranoia of secret occult brotherhoods. Fearing that a conspiracy would remove him from power, he made Himmler responsible for the investigation and suppression of all organizations that could pose a threat. Himmler's spies and agents infiltrated all kinds of occult groups and wrote long reports for Gestapo. Among the investigated groups were the Jesuits, Jehovah's Witnesses, astrological societies, the Freemasons, and the Rosicrucians. The Rosicrucians were investigated with special care and thoroughness, because they calimed to possess certain universal secrets that Himmler thought might be useful in the service of SS. The connection between the Rosicrucians and the Freemasons - only Freemasons were accepted in the German section of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood - was regarded as a national security threat. Their interest in the Jewish Kabbalah was regarded as a threat against Nazi-magic itself.

Adolf Hitler embraced the central idea in Lanz von Liebenfel's "ariosophy", but there were many of Lanz' ideas he could not swallow, especially the Catholic Christianity. (This is why I don't believe Hitler's alleged Catholicism before I see it.)

Hitler, however, had his very special method of reading - a study technique that was very effective in his case. He ensured his readers in "Mein Kampf" that he had the habit of resorting to books if he wanted to solve a problem. He insisted that his method of reading, superior to any other, consisted of "remembering the essential and completely forgetting the unessential." In practice this meant to define what is essential, which in Hitler's case did not imply logical analysis, but an intuitive and emotional process of comprehension combined with whatever appealed to his own prejudices.

From Schopenauer he took the fatalism and the idea of the will, but he forgot the Buddhism and the pessimism. From Nietzsche he took the concept of evolution, the will to power, and the Superman (Übermensch), but he forgot that this Superman should conquer not other people, but himself. He took from Wagner the racism, the heroism, and the paganism, but he forgot the Aryanized Christianity. Further he took from Helena Blavatsky and other occultists what he wanted, and forgot everything that did not harmonize with his own world view. Thus he could say: "We stand at the beginning of a colossal revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."

All intelligent thinking should be done by SS, and the duty of the masses was to cultivate the will to obedience.

On talk.origins, there were some fundies who claimed that Charles Darwin's evolution was responsible for Nazism. The atheists retorted by blaming Christianity. Dan Dugan blames Anthroposophy. I blame the WE critics.

The only ones to blame for Nazism are the Nazis. Period.

Cheers

Tarjei Straume

Greetings from Uncle Taz

http://www.uncletaz.com/

Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism, Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality, death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.

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From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:07:46 +0200

My final comment on this subject (unless I get around to publishing an article about Nazi occultism in English) is that if we should search for a major influence on Nazism, the closest link would be, I think - and I say this with great caution and reservation - the Jesuit Order. This was not only the source of the SS inner structure and the use of religious techniques as propaganda and tools of mass control, but also many fringe sciences pursued by the Nazis. One of these was a variant of the Chinese Feng Shui, that the Jesuits brought to Europe in the 17th century.

This conclusion of mine should still be regarded with caution and as a suggestion rather than a so-called claim. I recently listened to an astute Spanish historian on TV who explained that the extent of the horror during the Spanish Inquisition has been overrated, because it was surpassed by heresy purges in other countries by a long shot. I'm inclined to believe that the French campaign against the Huegenots was among the worst. I don't know to what extent all the heresy-persecutions in Europe were influenced directly by the Jesuit initiative, but the stronger this influence was, the more intersting is the parallell to Nazism and SS.

Cheers

Tarjei Straume

Greetings from Uncle Taz

http://www.uncletaz.com/

Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism, Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality, death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.

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From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:23:02 -0700

Steve Premo, you wrote,

I suspect that Christianity had much, much more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy or Theosophy.

I agree. My position about Anthroposophy and Naziism is (emphasis added) that it -helped- to lay the foundations of the holocaust.

-Dan Dugan

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From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:28:03 -0700

John Morehead, you wrote,

Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold Christianity responsible for the religious foundation for National Socialism? It was either the Discovery Channel or The Learning Channel that ran a fascinating documentary for two hours on the occultic influences on Hitler and National Socialism, not orthodox Christianity, which unfortunately was largely silent while Hitler rose to power and carried on his atrocities. I'll dig up the book title and author, but there was a fascinating scholarly treatment on Hitler and the occult as well. To sum up, there was a far greater influence of the occult and a revival of ancient Aryan religion on Hitler, than orthodox Christianity. But note that I am *not* saying that all occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler, or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety of influences to justify their personal evil.

One must distinguish between Hitler and his cronies. Hitler himself was an opportunist who would use anything at hand, but he was not an occultist. I am convinced of that from reading his writings, there's just no occultism there. Himmler and Hess were occultists, and Hitler let them play that game to the hilt up until Hess flew the coop to England. Then Hitler purged most of the Nazi occultists.

-Dan Dugan

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From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:18:37 -0700

Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,

"We stand at the beginning of a colossal revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."

Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner? Warmed-over Nietzsche.

-Dan Dugan

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From: bhstudio@frontiernet.net
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:46:10 -0500

"Nietzsche is dead."
G-d

At 01:18 AM 5/12/99 -0700, you wrote:

Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,

"We stand at the beginning of a colossal revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."

Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner? Warmed-over Nietzsche.

-Dan Dugan

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From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:30:42 +0200

Dan Dugan wrote:

Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,

"We stand at the beginning of a colossal revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."

Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner?

Steiner emphasized thinking as a primary tool for epistemology and cognition. This is something Hitler strongly discouraged. He sought to control people through the emotions, and the most effective emotion to control them, he once said, was through the fear of imminent death by violence.

But I would agree that the names Rudolf Steiner and Adolf Hitler have an alliteral kinship - something like Christ and Antichrist.

Tarjei Straume

Greetings from Uncle Taz

http://www.uncletaz.com/

Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism, Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality, death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.

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From: Sune Nordwall
Subject: machine inspiration
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:22:36 +0200

Dan Dugan wrote:

Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,

"We stand at the beginning of a colossal revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."

Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner?

No.

You´ve listened too much to imaginary machine voices.

Sune Nordwall
Stockholm, Sweden

http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/indexeng.htm
- a site on science, homeopathy, cosmological cell biology and
EU as a mechanical esoteric temple and threefolding of society

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