And Steiner said:


From: dottie zold
Date: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:32 pm
Subject: And Steiner said:

Hey Everyone,

I went to my favorite Steiner book store and fell in love again with Ms. Gisele. Oh boy she is just beautiful and is now starting a new study group on the Prokofieff book on Sophia. I told her I was interested in hearing more and she took my number. However after having thought a bit about it I am afraid I would be like a lion protecting her young in my enthusiasm in such refined company. I shall have to think twice:)

Anyhow, I thought to share a passage by Dr. Steiner in a book I just bought called The Spiritual Origins of Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of The Holy Grail by Sergio Prokofieff. I think it speaks to a more thoughtful understanding of 'ideas' approach than has been shared by Bradford. I am not afraid of what Bradford shares rather I think there must be a more enlightened approach that inspires hope versus fear. And so here she is:

Prokofieff: "All in all, the impression that at the present time Russia is being subjected to a second 'experiment' (or, rather, a metamorpnosis of the first) which ultimately has its source in those same occult circles, (the secret brotherhoods) of the West of whose intentions and aims Rudolf Steiner spoke at some length at the beginning of our century and from whose midst the first experiment was put into motion in his own time.

The implementing of the 'Marhsal Plan' in Western Germany after the end of the second World War, as a result of which 'Americanism' became firmly established in Central Europe (thus to a significant degree thrusting the latter's own spiritual tasks into the background), may be regarded as a prelude or general rehearsal for these present events in Eastern Europe. This experiment was evidently highly successful, to the extent that it was now possible to repeat it with considerable chances of success, albeit in a somewhat different form, though this time by extending it throughout Eastern Europe, through Russia and on towards the East to the shores of the Pacific Ocean.

As in the 'Martial Plan' for Central Europe in the 1940s, the chief role in the 'new plan' designated for Eastern Europe in the 1990s was to be played by 'aid' of various kinds, which would, however, ultimately lead to Eastern Europe-in the first instance, Russia-being completely dependent economically (and this means politically as well) upon the English speaking West, which has now attained the position of being the sole super power in the world. The socio- political model that has been widely used in a number of Third World countries, and also in Latin-American states, could with a few insignificant changes be applied-and is already being applied not without noticable success-to Eastern Europe: vast foreign debts which do not allow the independent developement of industrial production, the plundering of the natural resources which form the principle items for export, the importing, in hitherto unprecedented proportions, of 'Americanism' as the new and only 'progressive' form of life and thinking-all these and many other elements of the 'new plan' can be observed everywhere in Russia today.

Already at the beginning of our century Rudolf Steiner foresaw this coming danger of a 'second' experiment in Eastern Europe for which the 'first' was to pave the way, an indication which he made two years after the Bolsheviks had seized power in Russia. These words of Rudolf Steiner are now beginning to be fulfilled everywhere. Hence despite the considerable length of the quotation, they must because of their relevance today be given here in full. (As regards their content they are also a continuation of and a significant addition to what was cited on pg. 240)"

Dr. Steiner:

"It can be said - and I ask that this be taken with the utmost seriousness: If a spiritual-scientific impulse does not penetrate the world, Eastern Europe will gradually become wholly unable to manage its own economy or develop economic thinking. The East (of Europe) would then be in the position of only being able to produce, that is, of directly working the land, of cultivating and processing natural products with implements supplied by the West; whereas everthing to do with the administration-the sphere of the human mind-would be developed in the West., From this point of view, the catastrophy of the (First) World War which has only just come to an end is none other than the beginning of the tendency...towards economic penetration of the East (of Europe) by the West; that is of making the East (of Europe) a realm where people work, and making the West a realm where what the East (of Europe) produces from nature is administered. (Where the boundary between the East and the West lies does not need to be defined precisely, since it is constantly shifting.) If this present tendency were to congfigure, if it were not penetrated by the spirit, there would be no doubt whatever-though at the present this is no more than a hypothesis -that the whole of Eastern Europe would become an object of exploitation by the West. And this path of developement would be regarded as what is natural for earthly humanity. It would be considered to be wholly justified and to be taken for granted. The only way of bringing something to bear upon this tendencey that does not make one half of humanity into helots (serfs) and the other half into manipulators of these helots is to fill the Earth with that spirituality which has been newly won and is available to all."

GA 191 lecture of 14 November 1919

Now, looking at this today it comes to mind that although it is real ugly the only ones fighting Americanism are the Muslim extrememist. And why not, as it is one shadow fighting another shadow. And for what? What is it that is going to come out of this mess? Are the doubles fighting themselves whereas they will be 'outed' in the process? We will get a real chance to see what the doubles look like face to face so to speak and decide this is not what we want nor how we wish to proceed.

Just as it seems it was only, god I just lost my thought......

Just as it was Muhhamed who brought the last faction of the vagabonds to God so it seems his group is drawing out the shadow for a showdown at the Okay Corral. This leads me to a thought about whom they claim as their first leader, was it not the son, who was not accepted and sent to the dessert to die? Does this make this group actually Jewish by blood? Or was Haggar a non Jew? Hmm.

Anyhow, I was just interupted again so I will sign off. I will say that this book is absolutely amazing, well as far as I have read so far and I do believe speaks to the issues we are facing today. And it seems the main way to confront this issue of the Shadows taking over is to be clear in our undertakings.

Bear in mind this was written during the eighties and completed for reading by 1993. How interesting to see what has been wrought since then and where the seeds have been shown.

In Iraq it has been noted that now at least they have the chance to have lots of gadgets, finally. Whooohoooo. Can you imagine. Between this report and the one where 'now finally they will have Mastercard' I can't imagine what is worse. What I can imagine is now they are going to be seduced by our shadow and I so hope they can hold on and wake up before this happens. I hope to hear them say 'no, you keep that devil'.

My thoughts,


From: holderlin66
Date: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:36 pm
Subject: And Steiner said:

dottie zold wrote:

We will get a real chance to see what the doubles look like face to face so to speak and decide this is not what we want nor how we wish to proceed.

And it seems the main way to confront this issue of the Shadows taking over is to be clear in our undertakings.

In Iraq it has been noted that now at least they have the chance to have lots of gadgets, finally. Whooohoooo. Can you imagine. Between this report and the one where 'now finally they will have Mastercard' I can't imagine what is worse. What I can imagine is now they are going to be seduced by our shadow and I so hope they can hold on and wake up before this happens. I hope to hear them say 'no, you keep that devil'.

My thoughts,

Dear Dottie; Nice work! However, this so called confronting of Shadows isn't gonna be some esoteric cake walk. It isn't like I want a lesson in Beirut Chaos spread all over the Middle East, just so that Muslims can gain what the West has as Doubles. How do you escape dealing with the cruelty, the daily car bomb, the hostage that merely acts as a dymanic perpetual motion self feeding, self replicating, self fulfilling Visual dementia of exactly the errors involved with total Fundamentalism?

Once again, Judaism and Zionism is fatally flawed. Muslim insights are fatally flawed. Fundamental Christians are fatally flawed. Put the three together and shake vigorously and you have; George Bush lying that we are bringing Democracy to the Region, but really we just want to be there when the whole damn thing goes down, heats up, and we have already contracted the Oil out to Haliburton.

For me it is literally back tracking our thinking, removing our military out of there and letting the Iraq world reorganize itself without our interference. Saudi Arabia had sought the fact that they wanted our bases removed from their soil. So we flew the Saudi's out of the country on 9/11. The secret is this; America was asked to leave the Saudi's and America said, well we'll just move our bases over to Iraq, boot out Saddam and have all the oil we want. We'll be in the middle of the hornets nest and after we have sucked up all the contracts we'll dawdle some little fig over to the U.N. and let them take the blame for the chaos. America will still have bases there. Hostages will be videoed and murdered, car bombs will continue to go off, Muslims realize how horrifically shafted they were by Israel and the U.S. and they will fight for their lives.

But because Kerry and all the collected Idiots in our government have laid down a policy and a propaganda to view the Muslims as Terrorists and since we have embarked on calling anybody a Terrorist, as an act of Orwellian Language shift, who interferes with our well oiled propaganda machine in the west... We can all watch the nightmare unfolds, as you say.... Watch the Dance of Doubles.

But they will still be Doubles who were stupid Army and Marines and National guard doubles who fell for this shit and now get whacked. They will still be Luciferic Muslim doubles, meeting Overwhelming force American might Ahrimanic doubles; There will still be global, world wide black bag blame game bombs and murders that America uses and Israel uses to do dirty work and shift world opinion. There will be Bin Laden's who our Propaganda hates and this will stoke our Fundamentalistic American doubles who will want to kill all Muslims, French and Germans...and then of course there is the massive, ugly, rotten Israel, Zionists doubles who have had no qualms in staging enormous terrorists events to make Muslims take the blame.

Rather than any of this, A sane and healing Marshal Plan should have been, should have been, the order of the day in Iraq. Now, what we need is to give it all back to the Muslims because America invaded a country illegally and we should defuse the area and accept that America is just going to have to be one of the three great Threefold Players, of EURO - Western - and East, all under shifting financial power games. Can America eat its double? Hell, on Hell no. It has lied and festered, fabricated and fouled the entire Middle East again and again just so it can have a slice of the giant guzzling SUV Doubles of American complacency.

Buddhism has already had its moment in the Sun as Viet Nam was basically an Ahrimanic attack on simple Buddhistic/Communistic village deceptions. We can play Gibson's Passion all day long, but the fact is the Michael School with Christ as a FACT and the I AM as a fact and Threefold Global Economy as a Fact and Education as a Fact is the thing that the Doubles of the World hate.

Ahriman has infested the Doubles and voting for Kerry is just 40% better than Bush. We have thousands upon thousands of people in Spain, Europe and America who really don't want our doubles to cause World destruction, enflame the Koreans and keep FUNDAMENTALISM as the law of the land. Now it is my opinion that in the psychological predictive behavior models of how this whole Iraq thing has been spun, the chaos is built in it for the sake of the Oil and keeping global doubles darkened.

This entire Cycle of Hatred and Steiner's brilliant tracing of the forces of involved in a Cycle of Hatred through an entire Spiritual Science layered, in depth research outline, is one of the true answers to why, World Peace and Give Peace a Chance must be based on understanding the cycle of Hatred and Violence.

Steiner's understanding of the parasites and the Cancer of the cycle of Violence and tracing the actual cycle of Violence is something for all of us to stand on. For how can you trace the Cycle of Violence and Hatred? Well there is the roadmap. Study this over and over and you actually have an encapsulated road map to Peace. At every sentence Steiner demands you go with him into Spiritual Science. Therefore if the Michael School has a spine we would all be taking apart this lecture piece by piece in order to translate it to everyone and explain it all in our own words. For anything short of understanding the Doubles, the parasites, the cancer and the resurging of the DREAM that led to 1914 and finally Nazis, will fail to allow us to see what we are doing right now in the Nightmare of 2004.

Iraq, the U.N. Colin Powell and the entire Press Core and NeoCons along with Kerry and the whole damn lot of them, have dreamed like they did in 1914, into this new broiling monster that is liable to erupt and all we will hear all day long is doubles, blaming, talking heads, more doubles and the clear voices sounding like they aren't Patriotic. But the Media will enjoy all this rotten business and ratings and entertainment, however sick, like "Brazil" and Orwellian, will just feed the fat flabby doubles here in the west.

We, IMO, do not want to go off dreaming the way we have dreamt up this lie to use Terrorism, when America is the Terror King and I'm sure even if Nostradamus would wonder who really is the "king of Terror". But we don't have to guess. We don't need the vague mumbo jumbo of Nostradamus. We have an absolute outline of Occult cycle of Violence and hate, An Outline, in brief, of the Cycle of Hatred, which Steiner reveals in fiery detail that most of us yawn at. And this, this document is easy to understand or as the case may be, we are merely a lazy bunch of luke warm bunglers called, loosely, the Michael School.

Nicolas Perlas certainly isn't amongst the loose bunglers, nor is Terry Boardman nor are countless numbers of us who silently trod the paths of Spritual Science. Did Steiner try to fend off catastrophe or did he buy his ticket to Double Mania and sit down in the bleechers? NO, he, like most of us, do not want to see ourselves or our teenagers killed in a head on collision and we worry and fret over their safety. Well We owe this not only to the Michael School, but we owe it to America to not sleep through these self-dreamt, self dreaming, self induced Press and Poltical behavior delusional Armageddon models that use the soul life of the world as a perpetual toxic hate machine.

One lecture, explaining the entire GIVE PEACE A CHANCE cycle of error and we stare off into space... poohy.. (not that you stared off into space Dottie, you didn't! You brought a rich understanding of the most human aspect of what the Marshal Plan should have done, but Bushies and Neocons never wanted a Marshal Plan) I say you did a great job of intense work Dottie. Thanks from the bottom of my heart.



From: dottie zold
Date: Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:36 pm
Subject: Re: And Steiner said:

Hey Bradford,

I agree with all you said in this post and see it in the same light as you. Here's my question: What would the brotherhoods hope to acomplish by taking over the world on this level?

See, we saw the brotherhood at work keeping Sophia underwraps and any good thing pertaining to the feminine aspect of our spiritual work. There was a fight of sorts as Dr. Steiner explains it and I understand it. Now, I can understand looking back why this was and unto what however I am wondering what is in it for the brotherhoods and Americanism? What is the higher picture? What are they looking for in the end run? What is the highest ideal of them hoping to achieve? What does this have to do with the sixth epoch?

These questions are important so we do not get stuck in the todayness of things? Of course we have to handle what we have to handle but I believe we must do it with steadfastness of our spiritual understandings won by our perserverance on the path. To get lost in the violence and ignorance of those in office now would throw us from what is really trying to be heard? It's not how bad they are and so forth, I think it is more like where do we want to lead and why do we want to lead? What is the honey at the end of the pot?

I grieve for those beautiful faces I see on the screen. And I trust it as well. But I do not want to stay in it. So, how do we affect change without us becoming the very enemy we say we oppose? How do we not anihilate that which takes pleasure in anihilating? How do we not become like them by playing their division game. There must be a balance and I believe this is what the word 'righteousness' refers to. It is not a weakness no it is a steadfastness in knowing we know more than we are able to record in this present time. We are spiritual beings and we are called to know this precisely in this lifetime. We are to wake up to the all present Love and radiate this on the planet. We must try very hard to overcome that which will pull us down like the others. We must not fall asleep to Love and our birthright as the heirs to Christ. We are of His lineage and so we must purport ourselves to the best of our ability.

When you say not a cakewalk how right you are. And, it is this very fight that we gird ourselves for now. But not in rage and anger and judgement, rather in Love. Love is the most powerful force that exists, so I believe. And it is this we are called to with all our might. And no, it is not a cakewalk either.

Love to you,

[Continued in "Not Without Love nor Reason(s)/ Dottie do(es)"]


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